Thank you for all your input! Great coincidence with that video, searchinmyroots, thanks for linking to it!
From my side, it's ok to have your opinion here, too, Peergint (since you made clear that you're not going to try to proselytize)! But I'd mainly like to find out if there is anything else in the Hebrew Bible that refers to that original sin situation. If we compare it to the view in Christianity, let's just point out that it's the Christian view.
I am really coming from the opposite direction than you, though: I cannot understand how Christians jump to the conclusion that Jesus is not "just" a great guy who had a historical impact, but in fact g-ds son, on one level with g-d.
To clarify where I'm coming from - I had a culturally Christian upbringing, with compulsory religion as a subject at school, church groups, spent a few years at a Christian school, and studied the historical Jesus for one subject of my finals back then. I am not Christian, however, but would like to convert to Judaism. So this is where I am coming from. Having Jesus in the equation was normal for me because that was the narrative I grew up with, even though no one in my family was religious. It is just SO normal to celebrate Christmas and Easter, our society builds around it. But I never realized the apparently HUGE role the original sin plays in Christianity until my neighbor pointed it out. My point of view is that a lot of people who are "habitual" Christians do not know this. In fact, I just had a call with my mother who didn't know that and was similarly shocked. But it makes sense for the answer to "why one needs to accept Jesus" - Christianity claims that Jesus died for our sins and you need to accept Jesus in order to be redeemed from that original sin that we apparently all inherited. Is that correct, regarding the Christian interpretation?
Quote:8:21 - And the Lord smelled the pleasant aroma, and the Lord said to Himself, "I will no longer curse the earth because of man, for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth, and I will no longer smite all living things as I have done.
@searchinmyroots, What is the context for that verse? It sounds like a shift in view, so there was cursing and smiting going on before that - due to which reason?
I know (not in detail) about the stories of Sodom & Gomorrha and the flood, but I understood it as consequences to very tangible and manifest sins, with lots of opportunity to save yourself and/or better the (very real) behavior (that you yourself decided to cause). This is a theme that I find throughout what I have learned about Judaism so far - basically g-d reminding you that you have the tools to be decent, so please do so (or occasionally suffer the consequences). Are there any passages where g-d punishes for anything other than actual wrongdoings?
Quote:I would ask her if she knows the Hebrew bible says we can rule over sin.
And ask her why G-d and the prophets told us many times in many places of ways to be forgiven, without any sacrifices.
She cited multiple verses of how in Judaism sacrifices are still a thing. The passage you linked to suggests it is a misconception. It seems that there is that distinction between sacrifices for your current wrongdoings and for some general assumed apparently inherent evilness, which I now understand does not exist in Judaism.
Quote:That's not it at all. What it means is that because of Adam and Eve's sin, death entered the world. Before then they had eternal life. Because of the original sin, and we are all descendants from Adam, his sin affects us all. Children don't sin, but because they're human like we are, they will sin at some point because none of us are perfect.
Peergint, Ok, I am with you so far. But if that's the interpretation, why do we still need Jesus as redeemer of said sin? Why not cut out the middle man and make it just about g-d and the person? And if Adam's sin means we are all going to die (but weren't before), how do we connect that to sinning in general? What is that redemption that only Jesus can achieve? And why can people not do that themselves?
I agree that the idea of being born a "sinner" is off-putting. I am not sure if it doesn't mean the same thing, though (the
inclination of sinning, which indeed seems to be a human trait, just like children need to be taught ethics and responsible behavior or might end up hurting others if let run wild, versus some inherited guilt). It seems so destructive and seems to have led to progressively more authoritarian theological beliefs with each new "iteration".
On a personal level, Judaism seems so much more life affirming, affirming that people are humans and can fail, but always can better themselves, and that it just depends on their efforts, which are seen by g-d.