https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.57a?lang=bi
Onkelos
said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus
said to him: He is punished
with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. (read in context)
What is this all about and why is Jesus mentioned?
Thanks.
(07-04-2020, 02:31 PM)George Wrote: [ -> ]What is this all about and why is Jesus mentioned?
Is he?
There is a reason I ask that.
(07-05-2020, 11:39 AM)RabbiO Wrote: [ -> ] (07-04-2020, 02:31 PM)George Wrote: [ -> ]What is this all about and why is Jesus mentioned?
Is he?
There is a reason I ask that.
Yes, Jesus is mentioned. It looks like it is calling Jesus a false prophet.
Yehoshua ben Perachiah lived in the latter part of the second century CE. The Talmud teaches that Yeshu ha-Notsri was one of his disciples. That's about 100 to 150 years too early to be a reference to your Jesus.
(07-05-2020, 07:21 PM)Jason Wrote: [ -> ]Yehoshua ben Perachiah lived in the latter part of the second century CE. The Talmud teaches that Yeshu ha-Notsri was one of his disciples. That's about 100 to 150 years too early to be a reference to your Jesus.
I don't think Christians really know about that or if they even care.
All they seem to care about is when they see the name they are looking for, it must be proof of something!
It's like reading the headlines without knowing the rest of the story.
But that doesn't surprise me at all.
Anyone interested in exploring one critical scholar's approach to this question might benefit from reading these two books:
In other words, some people think they are references to Jesus (your Jesus). Others disagree. I happen to think that your Jesus (who is a complete myth) was based on several background concepts:
(1) The actual Yeshu ha-Notzri, who lived a century earlier than Jesus was supposed to have lived, was a famous personality and may have begun a community of believers who followed his teachings. This could actually be the original person upon whom the myth was based.
(2) The idea of itinerant preachers making their rounds in the land of Israel during the Second Temple period.
(3) The development of angel and demon theology in Second Temple Judaism and its concomitant cosmogony and cosmology.
(4) Syncretism of Jewish concepts with Greek-style mystery religions.
All of these things together formed the mixture from which Christianity emerged. It was helpful that people like Philo had developed the idea of the Logos being the heavenly high priest and making a connection between the Logos and Yeshua from the book of Zechariah (through the Branch prophecy). It is so easy to see how Christianity could develop from these pieces of historical accident without a real Jesus at all.
Again, I recommend that people read and argue against On the Historicity of Jesus by Richard Carrier. The argument is strong.