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RE: Jeremiah 31 - searchinmyroots - 07-13-2023
(07-13-2023, 10:23 AM)Blue Bird Wrote: Here is what the Christian bible says about the Jewish Bible:
Until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law. (Matthew 5:18)
The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Romans 7:12)
That is the highest appreciation one can give. What could be better?
Is the Mosaic Covenant better than the Abraham Covenant? What is the difference between the two?
Blue Bird,
Thank you for those verses.
But as we all know, the Christian bible says both nice things and not so nice things about the "Law" and how some of it is not in affect any longer. I've heard many a Christian say they only follow the laws that are spoken of in the Christian bible, the others do not apply.
No covenant is "better" than another. They are all different and apply to different things.
Both the Mosaic and Abraham Covenants were for the Jewish people (or Hebrews as they were called at the time).
Promises of what is to come and laws and ordinances for the Jewish people to follow that will show the world G-d's instructions for living.
RE: Jeremiah 31 - Blue Bird - 07-13-2023
(07-13-2023, 12:33 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: But as we all know, the Christian bible says ... not so nice things about the "Law"...
Where in the Christian Bible did you read these not so nice things about the Law?
RE: Jeremiah 31 - searchinmyroots - 07-14-2023
(07-13-2023, 06:08 PM)Blue Bird Wrote:(07-13-2023, 12:33 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: But as we all know, the Christian bible says ... not so nice things about the "Law"...
Where in the Christian Bible did you read these not so nice things about the Law?
Do I really have to post them?
Does the Christian bible change any of the laws given to the Jewish people?
RE: Jeremiah 31 - Blue Bird - 07-26-2023
(07-14-2023, 12:44 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(07-13-2023, 06:08 PM)Blue Bird Wrote:(07-13-2023, 12:33 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: But as we all know, the Christian bible says ... not so nice things about the "Law"...
Where in the Christian Bible did you read these not so nice things about the Law?
Do I really have to post them?
Does the Christian bible change any of the laws given to the Jewish people?
In my opinion the law given to the Jewish people must be changed for the nations. As much as I enjoy listening to Jews when they remember their history, for me it wouldn't make sense to celebrate Jewish history. I guess my ancestors lived in "sukkot" in the woods. They - as far as I know - never fled from a drought to Egypt and then were rescued by Gods mighty hand. No Tora was given to us at Mount Sinai.
I would feel really strange if I had to celebrate Sukkot, Simchat Tora, Chanukah and Purim.
You probably heard from the first Jewish Christians who insisted: “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses!” (Acts 15:5)
The end result of an intense discussion was the advise: "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well." (Acts 15: 29)
There are other laws that can't be obeyed anyway like those related to the temple.
RE: Jeremiah 31 - Robert - 07-30-2023
Hello Blue Bird,
This post is intended to reply to your original post rather than the subsequent discussion; no disrespect intended to those who have already replied.
I cannot better the posts I found on another website, as follows:
- - - - Copy posts start: - - - -
Quote:Alex, Jan 27, 2011 at 21:37.
The answer is two verses later:
"This is the covenant that I will conclude... I will place My Torah inside them, and write it upon their hearts."
So the content of this "new covenant" is exactly the same G-dly Torah and mitzvos as we have had until now. The difference is just that previously, unfortunately, we violated it numerous times, whereas in the future era of Moshiach, when G-d will "banish the spirit of impurity from the earth" (Zech. 13:2), we will no longer have an evil inclination that tempts us to do so; what G-d wants us to do will be a basic part of our psyche ("written upon our hearts"). [...]
Incidentally, for anyone who wants to research this further: this is one of the places where the numbering differs between our Tanachs and, lehavdil, the common non-Jewish translations; the verse cited in the question is 31:30 in a Tanach. Why the difference - I don't know.
Quote:Yaacov Deane, Jan 24, 2016 at 2:39.
The important details to understand from this quote is that this covenant is only with the Jewish people, not with non-Jews. Additionally, it is important to include the 35th through 39th posukim [verses] from the chapter which emphasizes that the Torah of Moshe, 'these ordinances', shall always be. They shall not be 'plucked out' or 'thrown out' even by a false prophet or dreamer of dreams or a miracle worker who arises from amongst the Jewish people and says either, "Let us follow alien gods." or says, "I will add or subtract from these commandments." Like for for example the Jew who did miracles and said that his commandment, the commandment that he added to G-d's commandments, was to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
The concept of 'the new covenant' is that there will be a completely new and deeper insight into the covenant that G-d made at Har Sinai. The root of this word 'new', is also associated with the meaning of 'chiddush', which means 'innovation'.
In other words, what Jeremiah is talking about is that with the final redemption there will be an innovation in the understanding of the covenant that was made at Har Sinai through the Torah.
It is a continuation and preservation of the covenant made at Har Sinai with Moshe. Not an overturning of this covenant like is taught in Christianity.
Source URL:
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/67574/what-is-the-new-covenant-with-the-house-of-israel-and-the-house-of-judah-spoken
- - - - End of copy posts - - - -
I would also draw the readers' attention to the following:
The Covenant between G-d and the Children of Israel (now the Jewish people), despite the sins of the people noted in Jewish Scripture, is everlasting- Genesis 17.7.
RE: Jeremiah 31 - searchinmyroots - 07-31-2023
Thanks Robert.
So it seems pretty clear to me Jeremiah is not talking about anything that has to do with the Christian bible.
RE: Jeremiah 31 - Blue Bird - 07-31-2023
Thanks for all your replies!
RE: Jeremiah 31 - Robert - 08-01-2023
(07-31-2023, 12:44 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: Thanks Robert.
So it seems pretty clear to me Jeremiah is not talking about anything that has to do with the Christian bible.
I may tend to be over-detailed and if so, sorry; but it should be clear that the Jewish Scriptures do not contain any Christological prophesies.
There are many claimed by Christian missionaries, all such claims fake, and every such claim aimed at Jews who both lack knowledge about their own religion and also tend to be vulnerable in other ways.
RE: Jeremiah 31 - searchinmyroots - 08-01-2023
(08-01-2023, 03:54 PM)Robert Wrote:(07-31-2023, 12:44 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: Thanks Robert.
So it seems pretty clear to me Jeremiah is not talking about anything that has to do with the Christian bible.
I may tend to be over-detailed and if so, sorry; but it should be clear that the Jewish Scriptures do not contain any Christological prophesies.
There are many claimed by Christian missionaries, all such claims fake, and every such claim aimed at Jews who both lack knowledge about their own religion and also tend to be vulnerable in other ways.
Nope, not over detailed at all!
I would say they may be misinformed as they read into things that are not there or are taught that way . Without what they call "types and shadows", I don't see how they can make any of those claims.
A good example I would suggest is why most evangelical Christians do not accept the writings or teachings of the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses or 7th Day Adventists to name a few. I would guess it would be because they feel they teach things that are not written, and/or followed in the Christian bible and take things out out context.
Well that is exactly how we feel. That the Christian bible does the same to the Hebrew bible.
RE: Jeremiah 31 - Blue Bird - 08-01-2023
These are allegations that are not true. We have Paul, who risked his life several times for his belief in Yeshua and was eventually killed. He was probably one of the best educated Jews of his time and spread the gospel everywhere.
Not well educated...yes, Jesus himself was not an academic, but a carpenter. All his disciples had simple jobs. Did they really have the intelligence to make up a story that could easily have been debunked if they lied? A construct of lies so profound that you think it shook the world and became the most famous religion in the world?