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RE: A message - JudaicChristian - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 12:04 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 03:51 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Isaiah 53 is about Yahshua.
What makes you say that?
Isaiah 53 is about a suffering Messiah.
RE: A message - searchinmyroots - 05-26-2025
(05-25-2025, 02:06 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-25-2025, 12:04 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 03:51 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Isaiah 53 is about Yahshua.
What makes you say that?
Isaiah 53 is about a suffering Messiah.
Where does it say that in Isaiah 53?
RE: A message - JudaicChristian - 05-26-2025
(05-26-2025, 12:30 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 02:06 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-25-2025, 12:04 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 03:51 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Isaiah 53 is about Yahshua.
What makes you say that?
Isaiah 53 is about a suffering Messiah.
Where does it say that in Isaiah 53?
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
RE: A message - searchinmyroots - 05-26-2025
(05-26-2025, 02:07 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-26-2025, 12:30 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 02:06 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-25-2025, 12:04 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 03:51 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Isaiah 53 is about Yahshua.
What makes you say that?
Isaiah 53 is about a suffering Messiah.
Where does it say that in Isaiah 53?
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Hmmm, I don't see any reference or any word that relates to a messiah.
Did you happen to read the rest of Isaiah?
If so, can you find where else it mentions being despised and afflicted?
RE: A message - JudaicChristian - 05-26-2025
(05-26-2025, 11:57 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:7 He was oppressed and afflicted,...(05-26-2025, 02:07 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-26-2025, 12:30 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 02:06 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-25-2025, 12:04 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: What makes you say that?
Isaiah 53 is about a suffering Messiah.
Where does it say that in Isaiah 53?
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Hmmm, I don't see any reference or any word that relates to a messiah.
Did you happen to read the rest of Isaiah?
If so, can you find where else it mentions being despised and afflicted?
The word "Messiah" is not used in Isaiah 53.
The word Anointed is used in place of Messiah.
Daniel 9:26
After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
RE: A message - searchinmyroots - 05-26-2025
(05-26-2025, 02:29 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-26-2025, 11:57 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:7 He was oppressed and afflicted,...(05-26-2025, 02:07 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-26-2025, 12:30 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-25-2025, 02:06 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Isaiah 53 is about a suffering Messiah.
Where does it say that in Isaiah 53?
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Hmmm, I don't see any reference or any word that relates to a messiah.
Did you happen to read the rest of Isaiah?
If so, can you find where else it mentions being despised and afflicted?
The word "Messiah" is not used in Isaiah 53.
The word Anointed is used in place of Messiah.
Daniel 9:26
After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
Once again you didn't address my question -
Did you happen to read the rest of Isaiah?
If so, can you find where else it mentions being despised and afflicted?
What does this mean - "The word Anointed is used in place of Messiah."?
RE: A message - JudaicChristian - 05-26-2025
(05-26-2025, 04:40 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:The Old Testament I am using uses the word "anointed," but not Messiah.(05-26-2025, 02:29 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-26-2025, 11:57 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:7 He was oppressed and afflicted,...(05-26-2025, 02:07 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(05-26-2025, 12:30 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote: Where does it say that in Isaiah 53?
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Hmmm, I don't see any reference or any word that relates to a messiah.
Did you happen to read the rest of Isaiah?
If so, can you find where else it mentions being despised and afflicted?
The word "Messiah" is not used in Isaiah 53.
The word Anointed is used in place of Messiah.
Daniel 9:26
After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
Once again you didn't address my question -
Did you happen to read the rest of Isaiah?
If so, can you find where else it mentions being despised and afflicted?
What does this mean - "The word Anointed is used in place of Messiah."?
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
RE: A message - searchinmyroots - 05-27-2025
Still didn't answer my question -
Did you happen to read the rest of Isaiah?
If so, can you find where else it mentions being despised and afflicted?
It doesn't make a difference what your translations say, it's what the Hebrew word actually means.
RE: A message - Yahya Sharif - 06-09-2025
1 ‘Who would have believed our report?
And to whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 For he shot up right forth as a sapling,
And as a root out of a dry ground;
He had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon him,
Nor beauty that we should delight in him.
3 He was despised, and forsaken of men, A man of pains, and acquainted with disease,
And as one from whom men hide their face:
He was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried;
Whereas we did esteem him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded because of our transgressions,
He was crushed because of our iniquities:
The chastisement of our welfare was upon him,
And with his stripes we were healed.
6 All we like sheep did go astray,
We turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath made to light on him
The iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, though he humbled himself
And opened not his mouth;
As a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
And as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb;
Yea, he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away,
And with his generation who did reason?
For he was cut off out of the land of the living,
For the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
9 And they made his grave with the wicked,
And with the rich his tomb;
Although he had done no violence,
Neither was any deceit in his mouth.’
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease;
To see if his soul would offer itself in restitution,
That he might see his seed, prolong his days,
And that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand:
11 Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant,
Who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many,
And their iniquities he did bear.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion among the great,
And he shall divide the spoil with the mighty;
Because he bared his soul unto death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet he bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 53, JPS Tanakh
The passage in question describes a man familiar with pain and disease, not merely someone undergoing a brief episode of arrest, judgment, and execution. In fact, any condemned criminal might identify with verses 4, 5, 7, 8, and part of 12, interpreting them as a portrayal of his own death as a noble sacrifice for the sins of others. However, such a claim is unverifiable and ultimately subjective.
The latter part of the chapter, however, appears to shift focus to a different figure—someone who will see his offspring and enjoy a prolonged life. This individual is depicted as having willingly submitted to death because of the transgressions of his people, yet, rather than facing death, he is promised life and legacy. This stands in contrast to Jesus, who had no offspring. While some Christian interpretations suggest a metaphorical understanding of "offspring"—referring perhaps to spiritual followers—such interpretations are often based on speculative or weak philosophical reasoning. The plain meaning of the word "offspring" is well understood, and there is no contextual basis to assume a symbolic reading here.
Moreover, the rhetorical question “To whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” suggests the presence of divine power. Jesus, however, displayed submission rather than strength in the face of the Roman authority. He encouraged compliance with Roman taxation and ultimately surrendered to crucifixion. His teaching—“Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God”—may be viewed as an attempt to reconcile his position with messianic expectations. Yet this reasoning falls short of demonstrating the strength and authority traditionally associated with the promised King Messiah. The text refers to some suffering servant rather than the King Messiah.
RE: A message - Yahya Sharif - 06-09-2025
(05-25-2025, 03:51 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Isaiah 53 is about Yahshua.Please exclude verses 4, 5, 7, 8, and the relevant portion of verse 12 that could be interpreted as glorifying any individual facing execution. These verses contain language that might just as easily be claimed by any condemned criminal seeking to frame their death as heroic. With those sections set aside, the question remains: Can you now truly identify Jesus?