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+--- Thread: Isaiah 9:6 comment (/showthread.php?tid=1205)
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Isaiah 9:6 comment - JudaicChristian - 09-13-2023
Here is the correct translation.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; (שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace.
שַׂר minister
https://context.reverso.net/translation/
https://www.bing.com/Translator
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - searchinmyroots - 09-13-2023
Umm, who gave you the authority for the "correct" translation.
Please refrain from making such assumptions that your way is the only way.
Really? BING is your translator?
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - rosends - 09-14-2023
(09-13-2023, 02:09 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Here is the correct translation.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; (שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace.
שַׂר minister
https://context.reverso.net/translation/
https://www.bing.com/Translator
The fact that you call it 9:6 and not 9:5 speaks volumes
Here is the correct translation
"The prophet said to the house of David, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it. His name is called from before Him who is wonderful in counsel, the mighty God who liveth to eternity — the Messiah whose peace shall be great upon us in his days."
The question is "translation of what?"
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - JudaicChristian - 09-14-2023
(09-14-2023, 01:03 PM)rosends Wrote:(09-13-2023, 02:09 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Here is the correct translation.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; (שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace.
שַׂר minister
https://context.reverso.net/translation/
https://www.bing.com/Translator
The fact that you call it 9:6 and not 9:5 speaks volumes
Here is the correct translation
"The prophet said to the house of David, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it. His name is called from before Him who is wonderful in counsel, the mighty God who liveth to eternity — the Messiah whose peace shall be great upon us in his days."
The question is "translation of what?"
Your scripture is part of a oral tradition, and it does not even agree with the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah 9:6.
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - rosends - 09-19-2023
(09-14-2023, 06:21 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(09-14-2023, 01:03 PM)rosends Wrote:(09-13-2023, 02:09 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Here is the correct translation.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; (שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace.
שַׂר minister
https://context.reverso.net/translation/
https://www.bing.com/Translator
The fact that you call it 9:6 and not 9:5 speaks volumes
Here is the correct translation
"The prophet said to the house of David, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it. His name is called from before Him who is wonderful in counsel, the mighty God who liveth to eternity — the Messiah whose peace shall be great upon us in his days."
The question is "translation of what?"
Your scripture is part of a oral tradition, and it does not even agree with the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah 9:6.
Your understanding is part of a Christian tradition and does not agree with the Hebrew. Why do you assume the DSS is somehow authoritative. Are you not familiar with the geniza theory?
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - JudaicChristian - 09-19-2023
(09-19-2023, 10:47 AM)rosends Wrote:The DSS is much older than your interpretation.(09-14-2023, 06:21 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(09-14-2023, 01:03 PM)rosends Wrote:(09-13-2023, 02:09 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Here is the correct translation.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; (שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace.
שַׂר minister
https://context.reverso.net/translation/
https://www.bing.com/Translator
The fact that you call it 9:6 and not 9:5 speaks volumes
Here is the correct translation
"The prophet said to the house of David, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it. His name is called from before Him who is wonderful in counsel, the mighty God who liveth to eternity — the Messiah whose peace shall be great upon us in his days."
The question is "translation of what?"
Your scripture is part of a oral tradition, and it does not even agree with the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah 9:6.
Your understanding is part of a Christian tradition and does not agree with the Hebrew. Why do you assume the DSS is somehow authoritative. Are you not familiar with the geniza theory?
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - rosends - 09-20-2023
(09-19-2023, 03:44 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:Not really, no. Have you ever really investigated ancient scribal practices? Do you think the DSS is representative of any particular group or tradition?(09-19-2023, 10:47 AM)rosends Wrote:The DSS is much older than your interpretation.(09-14-2023, 06:21 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:(09-14-2023, 01:03 PM)rosends Wrote:(09-13-2023, 02:09 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Here is the correct translation.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; (שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace.
שַׂר minister
https://context.reverso.net/translation/
https://www.bing.com/Translator
The fact that you call it 9:6 and not 9:5 speaks volumes
Here is the correct translation
"The prophet said to the house of David, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it. His name is called from before Him who is wonderful in counsel, the mighty God who liveth to eternity — the Messiah whose peace shall be great upon us in his days."
The question is "translation of what?"
Your scripture is part of a oral tradition, and it does not even agree with the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah 9:6.
Your understanding is part of a Christian tradition and does not agree with the Hebrew. Why do you assume the DSS is somehow authoritative. Are you not familiar with the geniza theory?
Or are you just quoting some party line you heard somewher?
Here is some reading
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/messiahtruth/viewtopic.php?p=71950#p71950
https://outreachjudaism.org/crucifixion-psalm/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MImJI68_-Po&t=323s
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - Blue Bird - 09-20-2023
(09-20-2023, 11:05 AM)rosends Wrote: Not really, no. Have you ever really investigated ancient scribal practices? Do you think the DSS is representative of any particular group or tradition?
Or are you just quoting some party line you heard somewher?
Here is some reading
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/messiahtruth/viewtopic.php?p=71950#p71950
https://outreachjudaism.org/crucifixion-psalm/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MImJI68_-Po&t=323s
May I ask you whether Anti-Christianity is (an essential) part of Judaism?
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - rosends - 09-20-2023
(09-20-2023, 11:26 AM)Blue Bird Wrote:Judaism wants to be left alone, but when others misuse or misrepresent it, Judaism crafts responses. Left to itself, Judaism would never have anything to do or say about Christianity. Though Judaism takes a proactive stance against idolatry, it is a broad position and it isn't clear whether Christianity is counted as classical idolatry.(09-20-2023, 11:05 AM)rosends Wrote: Not really, no. Have you ever really investigated ancient scribal practices? Do you think the DSS is representative of any particular group or tradition?
Or are you just quoting some party line you heard somewher?
Here is some reading
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/messiahtruth/viewtopic.php?p=71950#p71950
https://outreachjudaism.org/crucifixion-psalm/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MImJI68_-Po&t=323s
May I ask you whether Anti-Christianity is (an essential) part of Judaism?
RE: Isaiah 9:6 comment - Blue Bird - 09-20-2023
(09-20-2023, 12:51 PM)rosends Wrote:(09-20-2023, 11:26 AM)Blue Bird Wrote: May I ask you whether Anti-Christianity is (an essential) part of Judaism?Judaism wants to be left alone, but when others misuse or misrepresent it, Judaism crafts responses. Left to itself, Judaism would never have anything to do or say about Christianity. Though Judaism takes a proactive stance against idolatry, it is a broad position and it isn't clear whether Christianity is counted as classical idolatry.
I try to understand the energy that fuels today's extensive action against Christianity and to clear my confusion. If I understand it correctly, it is an understandable reaction to the centuries-old injustices of so-called Christians (I doubt they were). Each persecution had its reaction and result in Jewish literature and tradition, and that adds up and adds up and adds up to this day.
My conclusion (which may be wrong) is that the Jewish response to Christian efforts today (mostly non-violent) does not correspond to the current situation, but is a response to many experiences you have had in your history. Now a point that may be controversial: Could it be that the former victims have now become perpetrators, energywise? For example, as I have experienced in my life, early trauma does not necessarily lead to an understanding and kind attitude towards certain people and one can be much more aggressive than they deserve.