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Can a “Two-State” Solution bring Peace? - Robert - 01-20-2024
Firstly, in the Jewish / Arab dispute over the land of Israel, what is the “two-state” solution?:
Two sovereign states within the land of Israel, one for the “Palestinian” Arabs and the other for the Jewish people; its been attempted twice before, both times rejected by the “Palestinian” Arabs.
Secondly, a word about the concept of “Palestine”:
“Palestine” is the Roman-imposed rename of Israel / Judah, used by the Romans for attempting to negate Israel / Judah as names for the land, and today used likewise by the “Palestinian” Arabs and their primarily anti-Semitic supporters.
The name “Palestine” applied only to foreign rule of the land of Israel, first by the Romans who imposed that name to negate Israel / Judah as names for the land, and later for the Mandate awarded to Great Britain between 1922 and 1948; the Romans and the British both being foreign imperial rule. The Romans had resurrected the name “Palestine” (Philistine) from the region much smaller than Israel, in which the by then defunct Philistines had been. There being no “P” in Arabic the name “Palestine” in Arabic is pronounced “Philistine” (Filistine). There has never been any indigenous “Palestine” / Arab sovereign state in the land of Israel upon which the Palestinian” Arabs could base any claim to any part of the land of Israel. The alleged-claims to the land of Israel by the “Palestinian” Arabs are both unverified and unverifiable.
Supporting the “Palestinian” Arabs is NO support for any two-state solution. Why? The “Palestinian” Arabs deceive the world into believing they seek a two-state solution, whereas in reality they falsely-claim ALL the land of Israel (to none of which do they have any verifiable-claim), and seek to expel or murder the Jews, from the Jews ancestral-homeland of Israel. All this is clear both from what is taught to Palestinian children by the Palestinian education system (below), and from the “Palestinian National Charter - Such policies are thus anti-Semitic.
Palestinian education system teaches: False victim-mentality, hatred of Jews, and that Israel does not exist aka Palestinian false-claim to ALL the land:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-anti-Israel-or-anti-peace-attitude-in-the-Palestinian-educational-system
Many people are unaware that there have been at least two major occasions when “land for peace” (in other words a two-state solution) was attempted, but rejected by the “Palestinian” Arabs. The Palestinians have consistently rejected any such solution, because they falsely-claim ALL the land of Israel and wish to expel (or murder) the Jewish population.
1) The first attempt at a two-state solution, was the “United Nations Partition Plan”.
2) The second attempt at a two-state solution was the “Oslo Accords”.
1) The first attempt at a two-state solution, was the “United Nations Partition Plan”:
Israel was Re-established in 1948 following a “United Nations Partition Plan” which had sought to set up two states, one Jewish and one Arab. However, it takes more than one party to make an agreement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
The then Palestinian Jewish Community accepted the U.N. Partition Plan, while the “Palestinian” Arab response was in 1947 to start a civil war to oppose the U.N. Partition Plan, instead take ALL the land of Israel, and to ethnically-cleanse or murder the Jews from the Jews ancestral-homeland of Israel:
https://www.historycentral.com/Israel/1947CIVILWARinPalestine.html
In 1948 the Arab countries attacked the newly Re-established State of Israel with the same objectives, but the Arabs lost the war. Jordan then illegally-occupied the “West Bank”, and also illegally-occupied East Jerusalem from which the Jordanians expelled the Jews:
Jordanian illegal-occupation of the “West Bank” and East Jerusalem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank
Egypt illegally-occupied the Gaza strip:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Gaza_Strip_by_Egypt
Neither country offered these areas to the “Palestinian” Arabs.
“Palestinian” Arab propaganda falsely-alleges the Re-establishment of Israel caused: a “great injustice” / “nakba” (“catastrophe” / “disaster”) to the “Palestinian” Arabs.
In reality:
> The “Palestinian” Arabs violently rejected the Arab state of the United Nations Partition Plan;
> Jordan and Egypt occupied the land proposed for an Arab state under the U.N. Partition Plan (approximating to the “West Bank” and Gaza);
> BOTH Arabs and Jews, became war-refugees;
> The Palestinians falsely-claim with no evidence of any such policy that they were expelled from the land; Jews were indeed expelled by the Arabs as policy.
> “Palestinian” Arabs live and work in Israel.
Therefore the reader is entitled to be sceptical about “Palestinian” Arab propaganda alleging a fantasy-injustice.
The “Palestinian” Arabs have autonomy of two territories:
Part of Judah and Samaria (aka the “West Bank”) and the whole of Gaza.
The following is how the “Palestinian” Arabs obtained these territories:
2) The second attempt at a two-state solution was the “Oslo Accords”:
In 1967 Israel retrieved control of Judah and Samaria (aka “West Bank”) and the Gaza Strip (from the previous Jordanian and Egyptian illegal-occupation respectively) and as an attempt by Israel at “land for peace” under the Oslo Accords, Israel later granted the “Palestinian” Arabs autonomy for part of Judah and Samaria (aka “West Bank”) (40%), and the whole of the Gaza Strip (an autonomy which had anticipated a peace treaty).
All the “Palestinian” Arabs had to do under the Oslo Accords to have further areas of the “West Bank” transferred to their Autonomy, was simply to refrain from hostile acts (Article XV):
Source: Choose the “Oslo II Agreement” link on the following webpage:
http://www.acpr.org.il/English/documents-e.htm
Under the Oslo Accords Area C remains under Israeli control because the “Palestinian” Arabs breached the terms of the Accords, by failing to:
Quote: “[...] prevent acts of terrorism crime and hostilities [...]” (Article XV).
This is clear because:
i) The Palestinian Authority aka Fatah lost control of Gaza to Hamas, which fires numerous barrages of rockets fired at Israeli cities - Look up Wikipedia on “Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel”.
ii) The “Palestinian Authority” aka Fatah (funded by the “European Union”) and the “Palestinian Liberation Organization” pay a reward-“pension” for the murder of Israeli Jewish civilians including children (see further below),
and committed the October 7th, 2023 massacre of Israelis (see further below).
Once the “Palestinian” Arabs had tricked Israel into giving them autonomy of part of the Judah and Samaria (aka “West Bank”) (40%), and the whole of Gaza under the Oslo Accords, the Palestinians since:
Do not sincerely negotiate a peace treaty, falsely-claim ALL of Israel, and attack Israeli Jewish civilians as policy (see below).
No wonder anti-Semites display such emotional-support for the “Palestinian” Arabs !
The “Palestinian” Arabs are paid a reward-“pension” to murder Israeli Jewish civilians, including children (while being funded by the “European Union”):
Quote:‘The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund are two funds operated by the Palestinian Authority (PA). The Foundation for the Care of the Families of Martyrs pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out violence against Israel.[1] The Prisoners Fund makes disbursements to Palestinians imprisoned in Israeli jails. In 2016, the PA paid out about NIS 1.1 billion (US$303 million) in stipends and other benefits.[2]
Critics often call the fund "pay for slay" and blame the payments for encouraging terrorism. [...]’
(Please see webpage for citations.)
Extract source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund
An argument is purported that giving the “Palestinian” Arabs a sovereign state will lead to peace; that to achieve peace there is no alternative to this.
Consider: When the “Palestinian” Arabs obtained autonomy under the Oslo Accords - what did they do?.
October 7, 2023 they launched a Hamas-led attack, committing a massacre, barbarous acts, with the intention as is their policy, to commit genocide against the Jewish people and destroy Israel. Further a survey found that:
Quote:“[...] 63.6% of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip supported the attack to some extent [...]”:
ILTV report on results from:
“Public Opinion Polls [of the October 7, 2023 attack] by the “Arab World for Research and Development”, November 14, 2023:
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public Opinion Poll - Gaza War 2023 - Tables of Results.pdf
Can from the foregoing we really logically and sanely-conclude that peace can result from upgrading “Palestinian” Arab autonomy, to statehood?
The international-entities promoting the “two-state” solution are those who do not have Israel’s security or welfare at heart. Take for example the United States where President Biden’s administration (while a good friend to Israel in other respects) is currently promoting statehood for the “Palestinian” Arabs aka a “two-state” solution, a policy which will assist the “Palestinian” Arabs to destroy Israel:
President Biden is running for re-election, his party the Democratic Party is pressuring him to pursue policies that will protect Hamas.
The Democratic Party does not recognise the land of Israel as the ancestral-homeland of the Jewish people, and does not require verification of the “Palestinian” Arab alleged-claims to the land of Israel.
The Jews are the indigenous people of the land of Israel:
The “Palestinian” Arabs falsely-allege Israeli Jews all came from Europe. Some Jews are returnee-exiles, since the Jewish people have Judah heritage (“Jew”=citizen of “Judah” - Judaism is both an ethnicity as well as a religion). Yet the Jewish people are indigenous to their ancestral-homeland of Israel, with unbroken presence there from Biblical times:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
The Jewish people have had an unbroken presence in their ancestral-homeland of Israel since Biblical times, and also previous sovereign states in the land. For example the post-Biblical Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom which included the “West Bank”, Gaza, and Golan Heights, with its capital of (what is now referred to as “East”) Jerusalem / “Old City”; between 110 BCE / 754 BH and 63 BCE / 706 BH - Map:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Hasmonean_kingdom.jpg
By comparison there has never been an indigenous “Palestine” / Arab sovereign state in the land of Israel upon which the “Palestinian” Arabs could base any claim to any part of Israel.
Before the British Mandate, the prior Ottoman Turkish empire did not use any such political name as “Palestine”, but rather Ottoman-occupied Judah / Israel was within the Ottoman province of “Syria”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Syria
JEWISH citizens of the British Mandate were Palestinian: Irrespective of race or religion citizens of the British Mandate became: “Palestinian”.
Extracts from British “Government of Palestine” passports,
from which it can be seen that JEWISH citizens of the Mandate were “Palestinian”:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/p6hjhurn71h1w6w/British+Mandate+Passports_P1+Arab+name_PP+2-5+Jewish+name_P6+URLs.pdf/file
The Media of the time referred to Mandate inhabitants, as:
“Palestinian Arabs”, / “Palestinian Jews”, or as: “Arabs” / “Jews”.
The “Palestinian Arabs” dropped the name “Arab” so you should not understand they mostly originate from Foreign-Arab-Migrant-Workers who came to the land of Israel just prior to, and during the British Mandate, to take advantage of higher wages through Jewish returnee-exiles:
“Arab Immigration to Historic Palestine: A Survey”, by Richard Mather:
https://richardmatherblog.wordpress.com/2015/05/
The “Palestinian” Arabs having considered themselves to be Arab only, this is why they were opposed to being called a “People” until the 1960’s, when they decided it fitted with their intention to steal the land of Israel from its indigenous Jews:
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/palestinian_truth.htm
Conclusion:
Not only is there no objective-historical evidence supporting any claim by the "Palestinian" Arabs over any part of the land of Israel, but we have seen from Fatah terrorism, and from the Hamas October 7, 2023 attack and massacre, and from the support which that attack attracted from "Palestinian" Arab civilians, that there is zero to be gained from the point of view of peace from any two-state solution who, in any event, want the whole of Israel, not any such two-state solution.
RE: Can a “Two-State” Solution bring Peace? - COmentator - 05-31-2024
the preceding message is totally true
Irael merit with the L-d
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/390860
RE: Can a “Two-State” Solution bring Peace? - Kissinger - 08-10-2024
there will be no two-state solution as long as the UN exists and supports terrorism
there will be no two-state solution as long as the IRG exists and supports terrorism
there will be no two-state solution as long as Lebanon exists and supports terrorism
there will be no two-state solution as long as the Muslim brotherhood exists and supports terrorism
and on and on
The real issue is Islam, of-course the Saudi's Egypt and Jordan want a unilateral peace deal that is until Iran Syria and Lebanon fall then it's back to the same old crap just like in the past, play nice until they do not have to. The only solution is to drive the enemy out and take back all lands lost. There must be a price to be paid by the Saudi's Egypt and Jordan for the fighting of this battle that only benefit them in the end. For every Jew that has died in this is one Arab that did not, because if Iran had its way the Saudi's Egypt and Jordan would be in their sights as well.
RE: Can a “Two-State” Solution bring Peace? - COmentator - 08-10-2024
from 1920 to today the PLO/Palestians have never accepted Israel existance...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-original-palestine-national-charter-1964
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter
Ironically al-Husseini won his office as Grand Mufti by the British who greyanded the election.....
How the Arab masses vew Israel, Jews the west and everyone else & Iran/Haman solution to the Jewish problum
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Victory.png
https://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-explains-final-solution-poster-i-favor-destroying-israel-not-jews/
If Israel has a handicap it is because...there are those person who pattern them selves after Ben-Gurion; Moshe Dayan; Rabin and Sharon think that by patrioning Arabs and giving into teir demands Land for Peace....they in turn will be elected to rule Israel forever....O Israel wake Up...when a enemy says they will conquer Isreal and kill you...take them seriously.....
1) TRust the L-d and not smooth/lying talk of Peace...
2) Expell all those hate thee from Judea; samaria; Gaza....into Jordan/Palestine east of the Jordan River valley
3) Settle Judea; Samaria, Jordan River Valley and Gaza with torah theamed Jewish Communities
4) For those who have been expelled...do not give into any of their demands...not even 1 bit of sand from the Land of Israel....
1 Samue a
remember 1:Samuel 12:15; iSIAH 1:20;
tHE l-D ALWAYS KEEPS HIS WORD,,,,AND FULFILLS EVERYTHING HE SAYS
RE: Can a “Two-State” Solution bring Peace? - IstandwithIsrael2024 - 08-14-2024
Absolutely not. Israel will still have to deal with Hamas.