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Number of the Tribes - Blue Bird - 01-16-2021
How many Tribes of Israel are there and who are they? In Genesis 48 Jacob says to Joseph: Your two sons... are mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine, as Reuben and Simeon are.
Without Joseph but with his two sons, there are 13 heirs of Jacob.
Exodus 28: You shall take two onyx stones, and engrave on them the names of the sons of Israel... in the order of their birth. - These are the 12 sons of Jacob without Ephraim and Manasse
Later in Numbers 7: ... the chiefs of Israel, heads of their father's houses, who were the chiefs of the tribes... brought their offerings. - These were those 12: Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Reuben, Simeon, Gad, Ephraim, Manasse, Benjamin, Dan, Asher, Naphtali.
Chapter 8: And I have taken the Levites instead of all the firstborn among the people of Israel.
Does this mean that Levi isn't counted as a tribe and Ephraim and Manasse count in place of Joseph? Why are Ephraim and Manasse not on the onyx stones?
RE: Number of the Tribes - Ismq - 01-20-2021
On the right shoulder were engraven Ruben, Simeon, Juda, Dan, Nephtali, and Gad. On the left, Aser, Issachar, Zabulon, Ephraim, Manasses, and Benjamin. The high priest himself represented the tribe of Levi.
RE: Number of the Tribes - Glenn2020 - 01-20-2021
Joseph already received land and was considered greater than his brothers (Jacob speaking to Joseph in Gen 48:19 "And to you, as one who is over your brothers, I give the ridge of land I took from the Amorites ...". so I wouldn't consider Ephraim and Manasseh as "replacing Joseph", but more that Joseph was greater and had already received his land (it's hard to miss that Joseph received land WAY BEFORE Joshua conquered Canaan).
The Levities were separated for the Lord (Num 3:12 "The Levities are mine ..." ) and did not even take part in the census (Num 2:33 "The Levities, however, were not counted along with the other Israelites, as the LORD commanded Moses.")
RE: Number of the Tribes - Blue Bird - 01-20-2021
So who would you call the tribes of Israel? Are there 13 then?
RE: Number of the Tribes - Ismq - 01-20-2021
(01-20-2021, 08:26 PM)Blue Bird Wrote: So who would you call the tribes of Israel? Are there 13 then?
I think that as was divided for the tribes the land of israel.ruben,simeon,juda,dan,nepthali,gad,aser,issachar,zabulon,ephraim,manasses and benjamin.
RE: Number of the Tribes - Blue Bird - 01-21-2021
Thank you Glenn and Ismq for your answers! It became a little clearer to me.
RE: Number of the Tribes - Jason - 01-21-2021
The root meaning of Levi is לִוָּה livvâ "he accompanied." Richard Elliott Friedman argued in his Exodus (Amazon) that the Levites were not originally part of the Hebrew people, not a real son of Jacob. The Levites were, according to his theory, the ones who came out of Egypt and joined to or accompanied the Hebrew people. A story was created that made Levi one of the sons of Israel and had to deal with how Manasseh and Ephraim came to be counted among the twelve tribes. It's an interesting theory. You might read his book and consider it.
RE: Number of the Tribes - Ismq - 01-21-2021
(01-21-2021, 12:45 PM)Jason Wrote: The root meaning of Levi is לִוָּה livvâ "he accompanied." Richard Elliott Friedman argued in his Exodus (Amazon) that the Levites were not originally part of the Hebrew people, not a real son of Jacob. The Levites were, according to his theory, the ones who came out of Egypt and joined to or accompanied the Hebrew people. A story was created that made Levi one of the sons of Israel and had to deal with how Manasseh and Ephraim came to be counted among the twelve tribes. It's an interesting theory. You might read his book and consider it.The Bible says clearly that levi was the son of jacob.genesis 29:34.
RE: Number of the Tribes - Blue Bird - 01-21-2021
This is definetly an interesting idea. It reminds me of Melchizedek, who was a priest of the Most High and came from a different family.
Would you say then that "the" 12 tribes of Israel are without Levi and with Ephraim and Manasse? What do the people of Israel themselves think (I read that you live in Tel Aviv)?
RE: Number of the Tribes - Jason - 01-21-2021
(01-21-2021, 06:24 PM)Ismq Wrote: The Bible says clearly that levi was the son of jacob.genesis 29:34.
It also clearly says that the snake was talking in the garden. Do you know "critical" reading is? Sometimes things are written for a reason other than the reporting of actual events.