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Strange times
#11
(11-22-2020, 04:21 PM)Chavak wrote:
(11-21-2020, 12:07 PM)Dana wrote: I look at this corona thing as an experiment in social control, the driving of a narrative, without the slightest concern for collateral damage. Consequences such as depression, suicide, shutting down of businesses and climbing unemployment. I am also saddened to see an inversion of morality. I am in my 60's and would never expect anyone to close a business or remain locked up like a prisoner in their own home on my account.

The survivability rate is 94% - 99%, low end for the very elderly, yet all we hear from the media are endless case numbers.

We've been told hydroxchloroquine is a dangerous drug when it has been proven to be safe and effective. Why is it not made available over the counter in first-world democracies? Most of South America, Asia and Africa it is readily available.

I would like to recommend a book by Simone Gold, M.D. and lawyer.  I Do Not Consent: My Fight Against Medical Cancel Culture

It's not lengthy and is also inexpensive. Highly informative. My favorite part of the book is at the end where she offers a six-point strategy when we see disinformation abound.

thanks for the recommendation, I'll look it up. Attorney and M.D.? I wonder if she is ever tempted to sue herself.

Good one!  Maybe too much of a conflict of interest.  She has a way with words by the way she describes the surreal feeling of watching how a few of her fellow physicians voluntarily surrender their medical judgment to that of the 50's film Invasion of the Body Snatchers. That would be strange.
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#12
(11-22-2020, 10:51 AM)Jason wrote:
(11-21-2020, 05:50 PM)Ismq wrote:
(11-21-2020, 12:07 PM)Dana wrote: I look at this corona thing as an experiment in social control, the driving of a narrative, without the slightest concern for collateral damage. Consequences such as depression, suicide, shutting down of businesses and climbing unemployment. I am also saddened to see an inversion of morality. I am in my 60's and would never expect anyone to close a business or remain locked up like a prisoner in their own home on my account.

The survivability rate is 94% - 99%, low end for the very elderly, yet all we hear from the media are endless case numbers.

We've been told hydroxchloroquine is a dangerous drug when it has been proven to be safe and effective. Why is it not made available over the counter in first-world democracies? Most of South America, Asia and Africa it is readily available.

I would like to recommend a book by Simone Gold, M.D. and lawyer.  I Do Not Consent: My Fight Against Medical Cancel Culture

It's not lengthy and is also inexpensive. Highly informative. My favorite part of the book is at the end where she offers a six-point strategy when we see disinformation abound.

You love to read isn't it?  Big Grin

Why "isn't it"? "You love" implies "you do love," and the tag question is "don't you?"

You love to read, don't you? [≠ You don't love to read.]
It's a book, isn't it? [≠ It isn't a book.]
She wasn't feeling well, was she? [≠ She was feeling well.]
Jason, i am not a english native speaker.i'm spanish native speaker.and i never have made a course.
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#13
(11-21-2020, 05:50 PM)Ismq wrote: You love to read isn't it?  Big Grin

Yes, in answer to your question Ismq, I do love to read. Maybe too much.  Smile
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#14
I have a different opinion. From my point of view, the measures are justified and it is absolutely not exaggerated. What you might experience is the prevention Paradoxon - it seems like Corona is "no big deal" because the prevention worked. Right now, our hospitals are still filling up and nurses and doctors are raising alarm. It really isn't a matter of opinion, it is a point where you decide whether you believe in science or not.

 I have people in my immediate surroundings who have our have had it and it is like Roulette - if the symptoms are heavy or not seems like chance and it's not necessarily a direct function of age. My colleagues have lost their parents. One of my friends in his forties has been suffering for months from the aftermath. Testing has pretty much broken down, the control we had at the beginning of the pandemic seems to slip away. I am happy if you are in an area where you feel like there is nothing going on - may it stay like this! But please don't disregard the experiences of those who have lost people - even if some are of "advanced age". I understand that it might seem not as bad of your are is not affected as much and I'd might even feel the same - but being in a city where nurses now start to despair, the gap is heartbreaking. For my colleagues it meant losing their 70 year old father - he might have had anything between a few or even thirty years left. Each day, each life is valuable! Some sources make it seem like it people are disposable if they reached their golden years, as if they should be sacrificed so that our economy can go on. I do not agree with all measures, but I wholeheartedly believe that we need to protect our eldest as well as we'd protect our selves or our children. We cannot isolate these people and therefore we need to behave sensibly.

And at the same time people are starting to call this a dictatorship - no one is prevented from voicing their opinion and the police is even protecting demonstrations  to ensure our protesters can publicly proclaim their beliefs. The new law has nothing to do with dictatorship. 

I feel many protesters are unethical and myopic. They proclaim love but don't extend this to the vulnerable if the measures needed to protect them require slight adjustments to their lives. They protest because their children can't have birthday parties at the moment and some just because they don't want to wear masks. Some call for politicians to be murdered, they threaten, they affiliate with actual neo Nazis here in Germany, there have been violent attacks, they even entered the Reichstag, now and a few months ago. Waving Nazi flags... This is the development that i am extremely concerned about. If Corona is as bad as we assume at the moment will be known somewhere in the future. Research is constantly being updated and we learn. I do not see a single reason to not stick to the measures that are implemented based on science, seeing that it requires relatively little and has the simple aim to keep us all healthy. I really prefer to err on the side of caution here.
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#15
Sarah,

Thank you for your voice, it is well taken!

I'm glad we are able to voice our opinions on this forum and have honest discussions.

To be clear, I too know several people who have had the virus, some having to be hospitalized. I also know people who have had relatives die from it as well as many nurses and doctors who are working on the front lines. So I hear you loud and clear and in no way want to minimize what is real and apparent.

The only reason I may be questioning things is because of all the inconsistencies, including what is mentioned as science. There is a lot of science out there that no one is hearing. As you may no, every country has been implementing their own rules. Some have had extreme lock downs while others hardly any at all. And from what I can tell, the results seem to be the same.

Another inconsistency is how cases and deaths are counted. I do not trust the "case" counts because many are inaccurate. I know several people that were tested 4 times in the same day with 2 tests coming back positive and the other 2 coming back negative. The death counts in the beginning of all of this were also all over the place, with many facilities putting Covid as the cause of death even if the person was on their last breath otherwise.

Again, please understand I am not trying to minimize the virus as IT IS SERIOUS! And just 1 death is too many. It is something new that needed to and still needs to be studied and evaluated thoroughly to prevent as many deaths as possible.

I just think we should be smart, be vigilant and protect the vulnerable without going to extreme measures as many people are greatly suffering from the lock downs. Some economically, yes, which hopefully can be changed, while others physically and mentally which I'm sure you'll agree is not good as well.

A good example is my mother. My father passed away in March just when Covid was beginning to get noticed around here. We could not have a funeral. My mother could not be with family and friends for comfort. She cannot hug or kiss anyone. She did not and still is not going out to the stores. She is depressed because she lost her husband and is more depressed because she cannot do the things she loved and kept her going. As much as I want my mother to be safe, I also want her to have life. It is of my opinion that she should go out more while also protecting herself. Obviously not going to large gatherings or places that may be potential hot spots, but just to get out more and enjoy life without having the feelings of loneliness, no purpose, fear and lack of confidence.

So in my opinion we have to come to a happy medium, a place where we can protect others, be vigilant and also carry on with our lives as best we can. We cannot survive if the virus is very deadly and we also cannot survive if we are all in extreme lock down for extended periods of time.

It's a fine line but I think there has to be a middle ground.

Thanks again for your voice and thanks for listening to mine!
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