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John 17:5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.
Some say Jesus is claiming preexistence; some say Jesus is not.
I'm interested in what the Greek says. Does the Greek indicate that Jesus was claiming preexistence?
Thank you.
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I'm sure we've discussed this verse a lot on CARM. It obviously means that Jesus had glory before the world existed, and he was asking that such glory be restored to him.
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That is indeed accurate, though JM has argued against it again and again with twists that are unjustified.
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Well, not to start out on a negative note, but I know the author of that website well and have debated him ad nauseum via email and on my blog. While Jesus is praying for restored “glory,” Dalcour abuses the aorist verb in this text (yes I have had Greek). All I will say at this early juncture on this forum is that the key to understanding this passage is (1) to recognize that Jesus was praying, and (2) allow the macro-context of John 17 to stand—contra just seizing on 17.5.
Dalcour has a standing debate invitation from me that he has been dodging for years now—and yes I can prove that.
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Yes, Jason, I was referring to the link that George posted.