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Is the messiah supposed to be a (one) person?
#11
Hi I am new here but there are two possible ways that your question could be answered, first it could be just one person or it could be a team of sorts.
Both are correct but it depends on Gods goal to indirectly influence us, because god only should intervene directly when it is dangerous to not intervene. For instance God gave the allies various victories in the 2nd world war to save many jews from the horrors of the holocaust.
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#12
Hello I am new here so please bear with me with my replies.

I am a Christian and have a lot of trouble understanding why Jewish people deny that the Messiah has already come.

I think that your Jewish bible contains only the Tanakh, an acronym for Torah, Neviim, Ketuvim--the three divisions of the text. These divisions are different from those in Christian Bibles.

I think that the prophecies in the Bible have to be explored. I'm sure they have, by scholars, Rabbi's and other more intellectual and intelligent people than I, but the prophecies of the Bible were completely fulfilled by Jesus.

Just suppose that Jews are wrong in their beliefs and Jesus has come and will come again for His own, what's going to happen then?

I'm only asking so that I understand, so it's a question not an accusation.

I have tried to talk to Jews on one other occasion outside a Synagogue but they would not talk to me.

Thank you.

Peergint
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#13
(06-10-2019, 02:22 PM)Peergint wrote: Hello I am new here so please bear with me with my replies.

I am a Christian and have a lot of trouble understanding why Jewish people deny that the Messiah has already come.

I think that your Jewish bible contains only the Tanakh, an acronym for Torah, Neviim, Ketuvim--the three divisions of the text. These divisions are different from those in Christian Bibles.

I think that the prophecies in the Bible have to be explored. I'm sure they have, by scholars, Rabbi's and other more intellectual and intelligent people than I, but the prophecies of the Bible were completely fulfilled by Jesus.

Just suppose that Jews are wrong in their beliefs and Jesus has come and will come again for His own, what's going to happen then?

I'm only asking so that I understand, so it's a question not an accusation.

I have tried to talk to Jews on one other occasion outside a Synagogue but they would not talk to me.

Thank you.

Peergint

Hello Peergint and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to keep out spam and bots.

Let me try to explain as to why we know the awaited messiah has not arrived yet.

There are specific events listed that will happen during the arrival of the messiah.

1- There will be world peace

2 - There will be a in-gathering of the Jewish people (all tribes including the lost ones)

3- The 3rd Temple will be built or will start to be built

Last time I looked, none of these things have occurred.



Yes, our Jewish bible contains 3 sections as you noted. Not sure why you say "only" as that is what our bible is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, the prophecies have been and continue to be explored. No, Jesus did not fulfill them.

We don't worry if "we are wrong" because we follow what G-d has asked us to. So we are very comfortable with our beliefs.

What if you are wrong and are following a god that is different than the one of the Hebrew bible?

Just to let you know, we have been down this road for thousands of years and we are pretty sure we know what our bible says. Several members of this forum used to follow Christianity but have since learned of the misinterpretations and twisting of the Hebrew bible and no longer believe that Jesus is the Jewish messiah.

If you want to continue our conversation, please make a post in the Counter-missionary sub forum.

Thank you!
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#14
Early Messianic literature written before or during the time of Jesus (but before his Jewish followers believed he was the Messiah) there were different groups of Jews who believed different things. One of these groups, a particularly apocalyptic one, write about there being two Messiahs--a Messiah of David who was believed to be a more war-like Messiah who was going to restore Israel and drive out the invaders and at last rule over all the Earth. There was also a Messiah of Aaron--who was a more priestly Messiah from the tribe of Levi.

To quote an article on this latter Messiah:

Quote:In one of the oldest founding documents of the Dead Sea Scrolls, The Community Rule, the community is expecting the coming of a prophet they called the Teacher, but also the “Messiahs of Aaron and Israel.” They imagined a future in which the Priest Messiah would preside over a “Messianic banquet,” with the King Messiah of Israel, whom they call the “Prince of the congregation,” or the “Branch of David,” as his companion. There are many references in the Dead Sea Scrolls to their fervent expectation that these two Messiahs would appear. As important as the “Branch of David” was to be, they nonetheless had the most extravagant hopes for the coming priest. In a text called the Testament of Levi we read the following:

The Dead Sea Scroll community waited a long time for the fulfillment of these central expectations. They had retreated to the Judean desert sometime in the 2nd century BC in response to the prophetic Voice they heard through the prophecies of Isaiah, Daniel, and Malachi. They became convinced that “this was the time” of the preparation of “the Way.” They were the community of the “Last Days” responding to Isaiah’s call to prepare the Way in the desert (Isaiah 40:3). Sometime in the 1st century BCE an influential figure arose among them who had great spiritual and interpretive gifts. They refer to him in the Scrolls as the “Teacher of Righteousness.”

We don’t know his name but many events of his life, and even some of his writings, are preserved in the Scrolls. The community saw him as a type of “Prophet like Moses” who had called them into a “new covenant.” They viewed themselves as a remnant group of faithful Israelites who had turned from their sins and separated themselves from the ungodly society around them. They considered the religious establishment of their day, whether Pharisee or Sadducee, to be hopelessly corrupt and compromised. They lived by the strictest interpretation of the laws of the Torah and firmly believed they were living in the “last days.” They believed that their Teacher had given them the definitive inspired interpretation of all the secrets of their prophetic writings.

So, what does this leave us with? It's very odd from a Christian standpoint to read this because, even as a Catholic, I can see that the way in which the Gospels and the Church (and indeed, most of Christianity--not just Catholicism) describe Jesus with the constant references to Jesus as "our Heavenly hight priest in the line of Melchizedek," the concept of "the Messiah of Aaron" is more fitting and yet the Gospels insist that Jesus is of the line of David. To reconcile this with the fact that Jesus wasn't at all warlike and didn't restore Israel and didn't conquer the world. To get around this glaring aspect, there came to be a proliferation of Christian apocalyptic literature that insisted that Jesus was going to return in a more warlike manner and subdue the Earth.

Do I as a Catholic have doubts that Jesus was the Messiah? Sure. I but I just have hope that in my path, as I continue to try to do the right thing, that if I'm found to have made a mistake in my Catholic beliefs that HaShem will be forgiving. If nothing else, I rest comfortably with the fact that both Jews and Christians believe in the same God. So, take comfort in that if nothing else.

Works cited:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/waiting-f..._b_7454860
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#15
Sarah, I noticed that you asked if the messiah will be an A.I. (artificial intelligence). I would say, ABSOLUTELY NOT! Glorifying an A.I. is a form of idol worship and is therefore detestable to HASHEM. I know there will come a day when it will be tempting to view these idols as gods, but don't be tempted to worship them! Only worship HASHEM, who is immanent and transcendent. Also note that the messiah should also not be worshiped as HASHEM, though it would be tempting to do so also! In the strange strange verse of Jeremiah 23:6, it says,

"In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

This is such a dangerous title as it could confuse so many people into believing that the messiah is G-d. But always remember this if you are tempted; Moses was also called G-d, but we do not worship him as G-d. Neither should we worship the messiah as G-d either.

May HASHEM bless you Sarah.
"Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
Isaiah 1:17
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