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Problems with missionaries
#81
(08-26-2020, 12:31 AM)ImAHebrew Wrote: Shalom Jason, my point is that the missionaries have not understood the language or the text concerning sacrifice, just as the counting of the omer has not be understood by the "main" leaders of Judaism.  It is very easy to prove that the counting of the omer is FROM the weekly Shabbat, and not the High Day Shabbat.  So IF you do your counting from the High Day Shabbat, you are not following what has been commanded in the Torah, just as the missionaries have not followed the TRUE meaning of sacrifice.  Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Well, I'm glad that you have everything figured out, then.
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#82
(08-26-2020, 08:26 AM)Jason Wrote:
(08-26-2020, 12:31 AM)ImAHebrew Wrote: Shalom Jason, my point is that the missionaries have not understood the language or the text concerning sacrifice, just as the counting of the omer has not be understood by the "main" leaders of Judaism.  It is very easy to prove that the counting of the omer is FROM the weekly Shabbat, and not the High Day Shabbat.  So IF you do your counting from the High Day Shabbat, you are not following what has been commanded in the Torah, just as the missionaries have not followed the TRUE meaning of sacrifice.  Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Well, I'm glad that you have everything figured out, then.

Shalom Jason, you know, that young student of the Rebbe (who we met with back in the 80's), when he was asked to defend mainstream Judaism's teaching of the counting of the omer (after we presented to him the evidence that the counting must be AFTER the weekly Sabbath and not the High Day Sabbath), his response was something similar to yours. His ONLY recourse was to say that "well," Moses told Joshua, Joshua told the next judge and from thereafter, it was word of mouth from one generation to another, and that is why we believe the counting is from the High Day Sabbath. But, if he would have been like you, to where he would have been "more interested in the language and the text," THEN maybe he might have not relied so much on the "oral" tradition. Jason, things may not be as you assume them to be, so I will leave this topic for now, and pick it back up with you at a later date. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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#83
It was really my way of saying that I don't care. We practice custom as part of a community. Even if you were right with your interpretation, it wouldn't catch on. I belong to a community, to a people. I don't care if you have it "right," if it's not part of how my people practice. Our practice as a people is more important than personal interpretations of unclear texts. There are important issues in the world, and this isn't one of them.
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#84
Shalom Jason, I guess there is not much difference between the "pew people" that the missionaries control, and the community that you belong too. I was hoping that you would be different. You take care, and Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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#85
(08-27-2020, 12:57 AM)ImAHebrew Wrote: Shalom Jason, I guess there is not much difference between the "pew people" that the missionaries control, and the community that you belong too.  I was hoping that you would be different.  You take care, and Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

And I think that is even a further ignorant statement than anything you said so far in your posts here on this forum. You know nothing about me. No different from a "pew person"? I don't seek out religion for my meaning in life. I don't listen to any teacher. I don't follow any wise man. I read and interpret and understand for myself. One thing I do NOT do, though, is bring my interpretations to the community and ask people to change the tradition. I personally believe loads of things that the majority of Jews (at least in Israel) do not believe. I tend to keep my beliefs and opinions to myself as much as I can. I participate in holiday observances and memorial days as part of a community, even when the things that are our tradition disagree with things that I am personally convinced of. For example, Tisha b'Av -- I think it is impossible that the Temple was destroyed twice on the same date in different years. I don't think that the Temple was destroyed for "baseless hatred." There are so many things that I think are mythologized about the memorial, but... I participate in the observance of the day as a reminder of the past. Why do I need to be concerned about the details? It's a tradition.

I reject your opinion because it would lead people away from the idea of community and commonality. Hillel the Great said אַל־תִּפְרֹשׁ מִן־הַצִּבּוּר Do not separate yourself from the community (Avot 2:5). In my opinion, the community and its unity (as far as possible) is more important than being "right" regarding ancient practices that really are irrelevant to real life. Who cares when you start counting a set of days? Why is that relevant to anything? I just don't see the relevance of these things that you say. I don't care about a red cow. I don't care about people who say that they have the "right way" to identify the new moon. I don't care about any of these odd "essential" teachings of people who don't belong to my community, and I don't care that they come and try to tell me that I'm wrong or anything else.

These are non-essential questions. If we celebrate Rosh haShanah differently than what the Bible says, I don't care. We have our traditions. They are our traditions. I'm not bound to how people lived 2500 years ago or more. You will find that JUDAISM is not "Biblical Religion." That's now how Jews live. Jews live by a long tradition stretching back generations. If that tradition has changed over time (and it obviously has), we take no interest in someone coming and telling us that we're doing it wrong and that we need to go back to how it was before our chain of tradition even began. It just isn't relevant. No one will listen to you because we aren't interested in changing how things are done in our communities. We do these things as a community, not as revolutionizers. This is your problem - that you've coming to this as something new and thinking that you can just decide for yourself and convince the world that they should do things as written in a book rather than as we have done them for generations. Take a hold of yourself. No one within Judaism is going to listen to you. You need to learn how Jews do things, if you're interested in Judaism, rather than trying to change us.

I personally do not practice religion. I engage in holiday observance because I am part of a community. Because I love my people. Because I love my tradition. I don't have religious convictions or believe in anything like what you would think a Jew "should" believe. I'm a humanist and a free-thinker. In my life, I refuse to let anyone say that I must think some way, believe some way or speak some way. And it's absurd for you to think that you know anything about me beyond what I've revealed to you in this thread, which is very little.
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#86
(08-27-2020, 12:57 AM)ImAHebrew Wrote: Shalom Jason, I guess there is not much difference between the "pew people" that the missionaries control, and the community that you belong too.  I was hoping that you would be different.  You take care, and Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I don't even know what "name" you're sending me blessings in. I don't know if you're referring to some name of Jesus or Yeshua or Yehoshua or Yahusha or whatever. I don't know what people mean when they say things that are "hiding" what their intentions are. What is "the name"?
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#87
Did you vet this information? Did you look up if it is established history?
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