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What is idolatry?
#11
I think that the reason for a lot of the confusion is the Gospels themselves. The four Gospels were written for a few different reasons and within four different communities (and there are more Gospels than just the four that never made it into the cannon) and yet they were all gathered together and included to create a common story, so you end up with a kind of patchwork.

The Christians whom you'll usually hear saying that Jesus "I am God" are usually Evangelicals. Nowhere in the Gospels--even in the Gospel of John--does Jesus ever say that. Furthermore, there's a strong probability that he ever claimed to be the Messiah. At issue in this latter case is a motif in the three Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) called "The Messianic Secret." This motif refers to a few incidents in the Synoptic Gospels where Jesus never outright states that he's the Messiah but his apostles guess that he's the Messiah with Jesus asking them to keep that information secret. The motive behind Jesus' asking his disciples to keep this information secret is never explained in the Gospels, and it's likely it's a literary device added in by the author(s). Jesus would've had no motive, if the thought he was the Messiah, to keep that information secret, so in all likelihood, the fact that he keeps it a secret in the Gospels is likely a device used by the author to explain to his other followers at the time why Jesus was the Messiah in spite of his never having said so while he was alive.

There are a few instances like that in the Gospels.
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#12
Jude,

Thanks for your explanation.

I've spoken with many an evangelical and I remember them alluding to the "I am" verse as an indication Jesus was saying he is G-d.
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#13
(06-23-2019, 11:53 PM)James the Servant Wrote: I can see how people may be tempted to worship the messiah as G-d because of the very strange verse of Jeremiah 23:6... but the true messiah--who is humble before G-d--will remind everyone that he is not HASHEM and will therefore never accept glory that is reserved for HASHEM.

That verse is an example of where a Christian shows you a bible translated with an apiori messianic agenda. They change a few key words and say "look, your bible says we're right. That verse in the KJV  says:

Quote: In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness

Which is a Christian bias, since Hebrew doesn't really have a word for "is". So given everything, it means "The Lord IS Our Righteousness" which is how any good translation renders it. There are many such places where that sort of logic would call inanimate objects divine.

Look at page 8 of this document if you're interested.

https://jewsforjudaism.ca/wp-content/upl...ies_-3.pdf

It's pretty funny how us Jews are supposed to be manipulative sleazy sophists, but I have never seen more manipulative wordplay than these sorts of polemics.
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#14
(05-26-2019, 05:03 PM)Chavak Wrote: Worshiping statues? Nature? Ascribing power to a person or thing other than G-d?
What's your definition of idolatry? How do you prevent it?

The most challenging form of idolatry to avoid for myself is self worship.  The belief that I am the source of my bread is idolatry at its worst.  Being a successful businessman, or successful Rabbi, or a successful anything, can go to a person's head.  It can be challenging sometimes to remember and take to heart that your success and your strengths all come from Hashem.

As the man of my household, I am required by Jewish law to provide for my wife and our children (my wife is not required by Jewish law to do this).  As such, I find great meaning in the ritual act of reciting the blessing on the challah on Shabbat.  I earn the money my wife uses to go buy the ingredients for her challah.  She bakes it.  On Shabbat, Friday night and Saturday afternoon, I, the required breadwinner of our home, put both my hands on the challah and declare that this bread came from Hashem and my wife, who baked this challah, answers amein (along with all our children). My mouth, my hands, my wife and testify to Hashem being the source of our bread.

On Shabbat, I am refraining from doing 39 different categories of work in demonstration that G-d sustains us and that our efforts put into our jobs are a form of pray for sustenance from the King of all kings.  The fact that I can fulfill the positive commandment to rest on Shabbat while refraining from perform these creative acts of work, testifies to the belief that Hashem runs with world. If I did not believe in G-d, I would be aggravated from withholding for performing creative forms of work.
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#15
To attempt to try to define idolatry according to Judaism, I would say that ascribing any kind of power to anything other than the One Creator or beseeching a subpower entity (like an angel created by G-d) for some kind of need is a form of idolatry.  Believing that you are the source of your success without having Hashem in the equation is a form of idolatry.  

The opposite of idolatry is to have faith in G-d, which defined by the "Garden of Emuna" means:
1.  That G-d is the One source of everything in our lives.
2.  That G-d does everything for the very best even though we do not have knowledge of the full picture.
3.  That G-d does everything for the purpose of perfecting each individual and for perfecting the entire world.

In addition, to have faith in G-d requires one to believe sincerely that G-d has faith in you.  Believing that G-d does not have faith in you is also a demented form of idolatry.
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#16
I just found this quote from Jonathan Sacks and found it interesting:

"“For Judaism, the search for religious certainty through science or metaphysics is not merely fallacious but ultimately pagan. To suppose that G-d is scientifically provable is to identify G-d with what is observable, and this for Judaism is idolatry.” ~ Lord Jonathan Sacks
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#17
I think I've read that somewhere before by him as well.

Getting ready to order his new book - 

https://www.amazon.com/Covenant-Conversa...abbi+sacks&qid=1570139394&s=books&sr=1-1


The last of the series.
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