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Non-Jewish Mother with Orthodox father
#1
Life happened, and we fell in love. My boyfriend is Orthodox. I was baptized Catholic but grew up in a household that did not practice. I am very spiritual, but didn't have a clear idea of who God was to me. 

My boyfriend and I are eight months in, and trying to figure out if we can really make a future together. He is truly struggling with having non-jewish kids. I don't feel it would be right or true to myself to have an Orthodox conversion. The more we have spent time together, the more I truly appreciate the religion and the history. I have been enlightened, and it's a part of my life that I appreciate he has provided to me. All that being said, I still don't feel an Orthodox conversion makes sense for me. I would however, see the benefit of raising children in an Orthodox home. 

If anyone has any suggestions for options whether it be my conversion to conservative or reform, and conversion of the children after birth. I'm wondering what the requirements are for children to go to Orthodox school in this situation. I'm looking at any possible options, even IVF with a Jewish egg, or adoption. My boyfriend is seeing things as very black and white, whereas I am desperate there must be some kind of option to make this work between us. Any advice and honest feedback will help. Thanks!
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#2
Gosh, that's really tough. I'm Catholic, so I don't know much about this, but I know the bare basics. Children can convert when they're older, yes, but I think your husband's struggle is with the idea that his own children would be considered converts rather than as Jews by birth. That can raise issues because, although the Talmud thrice forbids the mistreatment of converts, there are some ultra-Orthodox communities that would not recognise their conversion.

Let me tell you a story that underscores this point: I myself am currently considering conversion, and I asked to go to an Orthodox synagogue (I asked the rabbi if I could attend) and another rabbi who was there--rather than the rabbi of the schul--told me to (and I quote), "go to a reform synagogue. They're all basically Christians, anyway."

So there are a lot of . . . let's say, religious politics that can go along with this question which is why for your current boyfriend there's so much riding on the question as to whether his children will be considered gers (converts) or not.

Someone with a better understanding should reply, but for now, I hope this helps to open up some clarification.
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#3
I would question how Orthodox your boy friend is, considering he is dating a non-Jew and even considering g having non-Jewish children. That is not meant to offend him, but just stating something obvious. It doesn't matter if your kids were raised Orthodox, they would still be non-Jews. Not sure I have any answers for you. I guess the choices for you are to have an Orthodox conversion, or to have a Reform or Conservative one. In that case your then husband would have to be happy knowing from an Orthodox view none of you would be Jewish. Tough situation. As far as an Orthodox school for kids, I dont think they would be admitted since they wouldnt be Jews. Why do you feel an Orthodox conversion is not right for you? An IVF with an egg from a Jewish donor would not work because it is the status of the birth mother, not the status of where the eggs originated that matters. The kids could not have an Orthodox conversion because you are not Jewish.
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#4
My background is Catholic as well, so I can offer only an honest opinion. Concerning what it means to fall in love can't one just as easily fall out of love?  Love founded on decision and commitment towards what is best for the other has a stronger chance of survival. Since he is Orthodox, it seems the responsibility would be on you to consider converting to Orthodox Judaism. Taking that step beyond just appreciating Judaism, to actually embracing what it means to be a people, in joining with your boyfriend, in all the religious and traditional commitments, is a process that may take many years.  In my opinion, if you are unwilling to make that kind of commitment it may not be beneficial for either of you to stay together.
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#5
Hi,

Building a life together requires commitment and sharing common goals. A marriage in Judaism is a sacred bond between two people that is about supporting each other in each person’s spiritual growth. Without sharing the same religion and common goals the marriage becomes untenable and when children are involved it becomes even worse.

While you may be infatuated with each other now, there is a high incidence of divorce in interfaith unions due to the inevitable conflict that arises:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...02011.html

An option of course is conversion, however you should only convert if you truly believe in Judaism. That kind of commitment should come from within and not because you want to get married.
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#6
(12-17-2019, 01:09 PM)Maccabee54 Wrote: Hi,

Building a life together requires commitment and sharing common goals. A marriage in Judaism is a sacred bond between two people that is about supporting each other in each person’s spiritual growth. Without sharing the same religion and common goals the marriage becomes untenable and when children are involved it becomes even worse.

While you may be infatuated with each other now, there is a high incidence of divorce in interfaith unions due to the inevitable conflict that arises:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...02011.html

An option of course is conversion, however you should only convert if you truly believe in Judaism. That kind of commitment should come from within and not because you want to get married.
Other than reading a 9 1/2 year old Washington Post article, what personal knowledge and expertise do yo bring to a discussion on interfaith relationships?
בקש שלום ורדפהו
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#7
(12-23-2019, 10:05 PM)RabbiO Wrote:
(12-17-2019, 01:09 PM)Maccabee54 Wrote: Hi,

Building a life together requires commitment and sharing common goals. A marriage in Judaism is a sacred bond between two people that is about supporting each other in each person’s spiritual growth. Without sharing the same religion and common goals the marriage becomes untenable and when children are involved it becomes even worse.

While you may be infatuated with each other now, there is a high incidence of divorce in interfaith unions due to the inevitable conflict that arises:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...02011.html

An option of course is conversion, however you should only convert if you truly believe in Judaism. That kind of commitment should come from within and not because you want to get married.
Other than reading a 9 1/2 year old Washington Post article, what personal knowledge and expertise do yo bring to a discussion on interfaith relationships?

The article that I quoted in my reply cites studies and research that prove the point of the article. This is real facts based on real data. The article is not that old and the factors that caused conflicts in the past are still around today.

Unfortunately due to the prevalence of intermarriage there are not many people who have not been affected by it. Besides causing conflict in the immediate family, it causes conflicts in the extended family and in the broader Jewish community. Like a lot of Jews, I have had some experience with it.

I have also read through various studies and articles on intermarriage. I am well aware of the affect it is having on individuals and the Jewish community.
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#8
(12-24-2019, 02:17 PM)Maccabee54 Wrote:
(12-23-2019, 10:05 PM)RabbiO Wrote:
(12-17-2019, 01:09 PM)Maccabee54 Wrote: Hi,

Building a life together requires commitment and sharing common goals. A marriage in Judaism is a sacred bond between two people that is about supporting each other in each person’s spiritual growth. Without sharing the same religion and common goals the marriage becomes untenable and when children are involved it becomes even worse.

While you may be infatuated with each other now, there is a high incidence of divorce in interfaith unions due to the inevitable conflict that arises:

https://breakupshop.com/best-jewish-dating-sites

An option of course is conversion, however you should only convert if you truly believe in Judaism. That kind of commitment should come from within and not because you want to get married.
Other than reading a 9 1/2 year old Washington Post article, what personal knowledge and expertise do yo bring to a discussion on interfaith relationships?

The article that I quoted in my reply cites studies and research that prove the point of the article. This is real facts based on real data. The article is not that old and the factors that caused conflicts in the past are still around today.

Unfortunately due to the prevalence of intermarriage there are not many people who have not been affected by it. Besides causing conflict in the immediate family, it causes conflicts in the extended family and in the broader Jewish community. Like a lot of Jews, I have had some experience with it.

I have also read through various studies and articles on intermarriage. I am well aware of the affect it is having on individuals and the Jewish community.

I think that this topic is very interesting and thought provoking. Just logically speaking, there is lot's of outside pressure from family, friends, society, culture in the sense of standards and norms. How certain people or religion "should" act and how they should not act. All of which of course, is imposed on you. Being in interfaith marriages will no doubt experience the pressure from those cultural norms 10 fold.
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