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What about the prophecies of old testament?
#31
(07-03-2020, 10:52 PM)Ismq Wrote: look at this page:

https://warrenapologetics.org/sufficient...-isaiah-53

Obviously he knows nothing about the Hebrew language and how the bible was written.

I'm not going to waste my time refuting half the things he wrote.

What good will it do?


You are convinced Isaiah 53 is about Jesus and that Christian apolgetics know the Hebrew bible and it's language better than the people who it was given to.

That's okay, you are free to believe what you want.

There is nothing, I repeat nothing that I have ever seen, read or heard that would ever convince me and/or any learned Jew that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus.

I applaud your efforts.

Are you done now?
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#32
(07-04-2020, 12:10 AM)Ismq Wrote: How you then,interpret the passage in the hebrew language,as you say?

I thought you said you read the what i referenced.

Here it is for the 3rd time.

It was written by someone who was born in Israel, speaks the language and was a professor -

http://thejewishhome.org/counter/Isa53JP.pdf

Also, please note, no translation can be 100% accurate.
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#33
Does anyone know where I can find a complete list of the prophecies of the Messiah?  And does the potential Messiah have to fulfill everyone of them?

Thanks.
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#34
(07-03-2020, 09:26 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: It just seems so strange that some think they can understand the Hebrew bible without understanding Hebrew, the language it is written in!

Thank you Searchin for sharing the link written by Uri Yosef!   I don't think I've ever read a more thorough demonstration, revealing the differences between the KJV and the Hebrew Bible.  Clearly, gross misinterpretations do occur without a strong understanding of the Hebrew language after reading some of the attempts on this thread to counter.  

If you don't mind I'd like to share something written in the Preface of Rabbi Singer's - Let's Get Biblical textbook, by Gavriel Aryeh Sanders, a former Christian who had changed his name after converting to Judaism.  Supportive to what you have written.

While as a Christian he had a passion for winning Jewish souls which led him to move to Israel to study the Hebrew language while teaching English. What he did not expect was that the studies of Hebrew began to cause fractures in his faith, and eventually, "the English translations I knew so well appeared either mistranslated or taken out of context when compared with the Hebrew original."  

One question he asked,  "Was Christianity true because I believed it- or did I believe it because it was true?"  I believe for most people things seem "true" because we believe them. We run with the narratives we've been taught and look to insert and validate them.
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#35
(06-30-2020, 09:25 PM)Ismq Wrote: How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.

(07-02-2020, 10:27 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I just read your post again and I see you made some revisions.

So yes, the servant was rejected.

Yes, the servant would not open his mouth.

No, nothing about crucified with criminals, where does it say that?

No, nothing about being a sacrifice for sin, where does it say that?

You cannot take a line here and there and understand the content unless you read and understand the whole of what is written.

Since I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine -

Did Jesus have many deaths?

Is Jesus in the plural?

Was Jesus wounded from the sin of others and by his knowledge we are justified?

Was Jesus guilty of sin?

All of this is clearly written in Isaiah 53. If just one of the answers is no, then it cannot apply to Jesus.

(07-03-2020, 05:41 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 04:39 PM)George Wrote: It is documented with the thoughts of Jewish Rabbis.

As I mentioned previously, unless you understand the whole of what was written in it's entirety, then just quoting some lines here and there have no meaning.


I'm not sure why Christians quote the rabbi's, unless of course it seems to be for their agenda. 

Do you know some of those same rabbi's adamantly reject the thought that Jesus was the awaited Jewish messiah?

So quote the rabbi's when it looks like Jesus but dismiss them when they say he wasn't the messiah.

If all you wrote that was quoted makes it so clear that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Jesus, why didn't the rabbi's who wrote those quotes agree?

Because it sounded too much like Jesus.

So many Jews think they will lose their Jewishness if they believe Jesus is the Messiah; some have told me that they would no longer be Jews, but Christian, which is not true.
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#36
(06-30-2020, 09:25 PM)Ismq Wrote: How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.

(07-02-2020, 10:27 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I just read your post again and I see you made some revisions.

So yes, the servant was rejected.

Yes, the servant would not open his mouth.

No, nothing about crucified with criminals, where does it say that?

No, nothing about being a sacrifice for sin, where does it say that?

You cannot take a line here and there and understand the content unless you read and understand the whole of what is written.

Since I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine -

Did Jesus have many deaths?

Is Jesus in the plural?

Was Jesus wounded from the sin of others and by his knowledge we are justified?

Was Jesus guilty of sin?

All of this is clearly written in Isaiah 53. If just one of the answers is no, then it cannot apply to Jesus.

(07-03-2020, 05:41 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 04:39 PM)George Wrote: It is documented with the thoughts of Jewish Rabbis.

As I mentioned previously, unless you understand the whole of what was written in it's entirety, then just quoting some lines here and there have no meaning.


I'm not sure why Christians quote the rabbi's, unless of course it seems to be for their agenda. 

Do you know some of those same rabbi's adamantly reject the thought that Jesus was the awaited Jewish messiah?

So quote the rabbi's when it looks like Jesus but dismiss them when they say he wasn't the messiah.

If all you wrote that was quoted makes it so clear that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Jesus, why didn't the rabbi's who wrote those quotes agree?

(07-04-2020, 03:58 PM)Dana Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 09:26 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: It just seems so strange that some think they can understand the Hebrew bible without understanding Hebrew, the language it is written in!

Thank you Searchin for sharing the link written by Uri Yosef!   I don't think I've ever read a more thorough demonstration, revealing the differences between the KJV and the Hebrew Bible.  Clearly, gross misinterpretations do occur without a strong understanding of the Hebrew language after reading some of the attempts on this thread to counter.  

If you don't mind I'd like to share something written in the Preface of Rabbi Singer's - Let's Get Biblical textbook, by Gavriel Aryeh Sanders, a former Christian who had changed his name after converting to Judaism.  Supportive to what you have written.

While as a Christian he had a passion for winning Jewish souls which led him to move to Israel to study the Hebrew language while teaching English. What he did not expect was that the studies of Hebrew began to cause fractures in his faith, and eventually, "the English translations I knew so well appeared either mistranslated or taken out of context when compared with the Hebrew original."  

One question he asked,  "Was Christianity true because I believed it- or did I believe it because it was true?"  I believe for most people things seem "true" because we believe them. We run with the narratives we've been taught and look to insert and validate them.

I don't like the KJV either; I think it is a very poor translation, but scholars, not layman, read the Jewish Scriptures in their original languages.
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#37
(07-04-2020, 05:36 PM)George Wrote:
(06-30-2020, 09:25 PM)Ismq Wrote: How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.

(07-02-2020, 10:27 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I just read your post again and I see you made some revisions.

So yes, the servant was rejected.

Yes, the servant would not open his mouth.

No, nothing about crucified with criminals, where does it say that?

No, nothing about being a sacrifice for sin, where does it say that?

You cannot take a line here and there and understand the content unless you read and understand the whole of what is written.

Since I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine -

Did Jesus have many deaths?

Is Jesus in the plural?

Was Jesus wounded from the sin of others and by his knowledge we are justified?

Was Jesus guilty of sin?

All of this is clearly written in Isaiah 53. If just one of the answers is no, then it cannot apply to Jesus.

(07-03-2020, 05:41 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 04:39 PM)George Wrote: It is documented with the thoughts of Jewish Rabbis.

As I mentioned previously, unless you understand the whole of what was written in it's entirety, then just quoting some lines here and there have no meaning.


I'm not sure why Christians quote the rabbi's, unless of course it seems to be for their agenda. 

Do you know some of those same rabbi's adamantly reject the thought that Jesus was the awaited Jewish messiah?

So quote the rabbi's when it looks like Jesus but dismiss them when they say he wasn't the messiah.

If all you wrote that was quoted makes it so clear that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Jesus, why didn't the rabbi's who wrote those quotes agree?

(07-04-2020, 03:58 PM)Dana Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 09:26 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: It just seems so strange that some think they can understand the Hebrew bible without understanding Hebrew, the language it is written in!

Thank you Searchin for sharing the link written by Uri Yosef!   I don't think I've ever read a more thorough demonstration, revealing the differences between the KJV and the Hebrew Bible.  Clearly, gross misinterpretations do occur without a strong understanding of the Hebrew language after reading some of the attempts on this thread to counter.  

If you don't mind I'd like to share something written in the Preface of Rabbi Singer's - Let's Get Biblical textbook, by Gavriel Aryeh Sanders, a former Christian who had changed his name after converting to Judaism.  Supportive to what you have written.

While as a Christian he had a passion for winning Jewish souls which led him to move to Israel to study the Hebrew language while teaching English. What he did not expect was that the studies of Hebrew began to cause fractures in his faith, and eventually, "the English translations I knew so well appeared either mistranslated or taken out of context when compared with the Hebrew original."  

One question he asked,  "Was Christianity true because I believed it- or did I believe it because it was true?"  I believe for most people things seem "true" because we believe them. We run with the narratives we've been taught and look to insert and validate them.

I don't like the KJV either; I think it is a very poor translation, but scholars, not layman, read the Jewish Scriptures in their original languages.


Still, I'd take the word of an honest layman with a strong knowledge of Hebrew over that of a scholar with a Christian agenda over riding what the Hebrew text actually reads.
Reply
#38
(07-04-2020, 05:34 PM)George Wrote: Because it sounded too much like Jesus.

So many Jews think they will lose their Jewishness if they believe Jesus is the Messiah; some have told me that they would no longer be Jews, but Christian, which is not true.

Is that the best answer you have George?

And what about all of the other millions of Jews who understand what the Hebrew bible says?

I'm sure you know, but the Jewish people are always debating about meanings of things written in the Hebrew bible, but this is one thing there is no debate about.

Not because "is sounded too much like Jesus". Just the opposite, because they understand the Hebrew language and realize it has nothing to do with Jesus.

And the Jewish people aren't alone.

As Dana referred to in a previous post, many, many very learned and dedicated long time Christians have learned the truth of what the Hebrew bible actually says and have left Christianity.

They weren't afraid of losing there Jewishness.

If it is not clear from all of the very detailed information that was provided or from the rest of the obvious mistranslated, distorted, twisted and even made up verses in the Christian bible, then there is nothing further to discuss.

You keep believing in Christian theology and we'll keep believing in the G-d of Israel and follow the instructions on how to live our lives He provided for us, the Torah.
Reply
#39
(07-04-2020, 03:58 PM)Dana Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 09:26 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: It just seems so strange that some think they can understand the Hebrew bible without understanding Hebrew, the language it is written in!

Thank you Searchin for sharing the link written by Uri Yosef!   I don't think I've ever read a more thorough demonstration, revealing the differences between the KJV and the Hebrew Bible.  Clearly, gross misinterpretations do occur without a strong understanding of the Hebrew language after reading some of the attempts on this thread to counter.  

If you don't mind I'd like to share something written in the Preface of Rabbi Singer's - Let's Get Biblical textbook, by Gavriel Aryeh Sanders, a former Christian who had changed his name after converting to Judaism.  Supportive to what you have written.

While as a Christian he had a passion for winning Jewish souls which led him to move to Israel to study the Hebrew language while teaching English. What he did not expect was that the studies of Hebrew began to cause fractures in his faith, and eventually, "the English translations I knew so well appeared either mistranslated or taken out of context when compared with the Hebrew original."  

One question he asked,  "Was Christianity true because I believed it- or did I believe it because it was true?"  I believe for most people things seem "true" because we believe them. We run with the narratives we've been taught and look to insert and validate them.

You are very welcome Dana!

What is very obvious to me is that G-d told the Jewish people to "teach their children". To teach, you must learn, know and understand which is what the Jewish people have been doing for thousands of years. It's what makes us who we are according to G-d's word.

Now we see many Christians who understand they must learn as well. Or maybe to put it a better way, relearn what they were originally taught.

It is spelled out beautifully in Deuteronomy 4:5-6

5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and ordinances, as the Lord, my God, commanded me, to do so in the midst of the land to which you are coming to possess.

6 And you shall keep [them] and do [them], for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the eyes of the peoples, who will hear all these statutes and say, "Only this great nation is a wise and understanding people."
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#40
(07-05-2020, 03:02 AM)Ismq Wrote: I think that anyone who read a new testament OVER AND OVER will realize that's the truth that he was seeking for.And that these are words of eternal life.it happened to me.the holy spirit convince one,no words of men and discussions.the holy spirit.

Jews are not a spiritual reclamation project. Jews are neither spiritually blind nor spiritually ignorant. 

You have been advised that proselytizing is not allowed on this forum, but in your arrogance you persist. I suspect that you will not be here much longer.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
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