What about the prophecies of old testament?

[GavrielbenNoah77]

I myself had been a sincere and truly believing christian for many, many years, since my childhood. I even studied theology at an regular university for three semesters. I can understand the motivation, preventing other people from being "doomed" thru telling them the "true christian faith". But, in my opinion, coming to a jewish forum and trying to proselytize seems to be very, very impolite.

G-d has an ancient covenant with the people of israel. Jesus himself (as far as we know today according to modern christian theology) observed the Torah. The apostles did it also.

I would recommend to research the role of the apostle Paul and the early church history (on scientifically resilient sources of course). Do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

For me, as I described above, it took three semesters at the university to understand. I quit the studies and I was very embittered.

I then focused my studies to the roots: who is G-d? When did HE contact mankind and how did HE do it? What did G-d say? How did HE be behave? What did G-d expect from the humans? What happened with Adam, Noah, and the other patriarchs? What were the incidents round about the people of Israel, what was the role of Moses? What was the Holy Temple and  what role did it play? And the most important question to me was: can we have a connection to G-d today and if, how? What does HE expect from us?

As for me: I found my answers!

[searchinmyroots]

I think that anyone who read a new testament OVER AND OVER will realize that's the truth that he was seeking for.And that these are words of eternal life.it happened to me.the holy spirit convince one,no words of men and discussions.the holy spirit.

As I mentioned previously, there are many, many former Christians, some here on this very forum who did just that.

It looks as if you don't have any more questions or aren't really here to learn.

So once again, if you are convinced by your beliefs, that's okay, we don't need to hear them though as we are sure of ours.

You can be lead by what you believe is a holy spirit as that what your theology teaches and we'll be lead by the word's G-d gave us in the Torah as it is written.

We do not need to know about Christianity, we're well ware of what it teaches so please don't try to do so.

I don't see you purpose for being here any longer if you're not here to learn and/or ask questions..

[GavrielbenNoah77]

Just to delivering an example, how holyness is ment in judaism, I put here this video
remember: It is the same tune, the HighPriest did chant in the times, the Holy Temple was in charge.
See it and think about it.
https://youtu.be/wOlUJ3yPdQI

[George]

How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.

I just read your post again and I see you made some revisions.

So yes, the servant was rejected.

Yes, the servant would not open his mouth.

No, nothing about crucified with criminals, where does it say that?

No, nothing about being a sacrifice for sin, where does it say that?

You cannot take a line here and there and understand the content unless you read and understand the whole of what is written.

Since I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine -

Did Jesus have many deaths?

Is Jesus in the plural?

Was Jesus wounded from the sin of others and by his knowledge we are justified?

Was Jesus guilty of sin?

All of this is clearly written in Isaiah 53. If just one of the answers is no, then it cannot apply to Jesus.

It is documented with the thoughts of Jewish Rabbis.

As I mentioned previously, unless you understand the whole of what was written in it's entirety, then just quoting some lines here and there have no meaning.


I'm not sure why Christians quote the rabbi's, unless of course it seems to be for their agenda. 

Do you know some of those same rabbi's adamantly reject the thought that Jesus was the awaited Jewish messiah?

So quote the rabbi's when it looks like Jesus but dismiss them when they say he wasn't the messiah.

If all you wrote that was quoted makes it so clear that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Jesus, why didn't the rabbi's who wrote those quotes agree?

I myself had been a sincere and truly believing christian for many, many years, since my childhood. I even studied theology at an regular university for three semesters. I can understand the motivation, preventing other people from being "doomed" thru telling them the "true christian faith". But, in my opinion, coming to a jewish forum and trying to proselytize seems to be very, very impolite.

G-d has an ancient covenant with the people of israel. Jesus himself (as far as we know today according to modern christian theology) observed the Torah. The apostles did it also.

I would recommend to research the role of the apostle Paul and the early church history (on scientifically resilient sources of course). Do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

For me, as I described above, it took three semesters at the university to understand. I quit the studies and I was very embittered.

I then focused my studies to the roots: who is G-d? When did HE contact mankind and how did HE do it? What did G-d say? How did HE be behave? What did G-d expect from the humans? What happened with Adam, Noah, and the other patriarchs? What were the incidents round about the people of Israel, what was the role of Moses? What was the Holy Temple and  what role did it play? And the most important question to me was: can we have a connection to G-d today and if, how? What does HE expect from us?

As for me: I found my answers!

I think you have the right approach.  Do your own homework and then make a decision.  That is what I did when I wasn't a believer in God.  I started with: "is there a God and who is He?

I knew next to nothing about what the Bible said; I studied the Jewish Scriptures and the New Testament Scriptures.  I wanted to know who Jesus was; who he thought he was and also studied Apostle Paul.

[searchinmyroots]

I myself had been a sincere and truly believing christian for many, many years, since my childhood. I even studied theology at an regular university for three semesters. I can understand the motivation, preventing other people from being "doomed" thru telling them the "true christian faith". But, in my opinion, coming to a jewish forum and trying to proselytize seems to be very, very impolite.

G-d has an ancient covenant with the people of israel. Jesus himself (as far as we know today according to modern christian theology) observed the Torah. The apostles did it also.

I would recommend to research the role of the apostle Paul and the early church history (on scientifically resilient sources of course). Do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

For me, as I described above, it took three semesters at the university to understand. I quit the studies and I was very embittered.

I then focused my studies to the roots: who is G-d? When did HE contact mankind and how did HE do it? What did G-d say? How did HE be behave? What did G-d expect from the humans? What happened with Adam, Noah, and the other patriarchs? What were the incidents round about the people of Israel, what was the role of Moses? What was the Holy Temple and  what role did it play? And the most important question to me was: can we have a connection to G-d today and if, how? What does HE expect from us?

As for me: I found my answers!

Thank you for your very honest and meaningful post.

I'm glad you shared your journey and are willing to share it with others.

[searchinmyroots]

Dana,

I'm not sure if you've seen this before, but since you expressed and interest in Uri Yosef's essays, here is a link to all of them -

http://thejewishhome.org/counter-index.html


Others are free to explore as well!

It will be hard to find a more detailed honest approach to the comparisons as to what is written in the Hebrew bible compared to the Christian one.

[Dana]

Dana,

I'm not sure if you've seen this before, but since you expressed and interest in Uri Yosef's essays, here is a link to all of them -

http://thejewishhome.org/counter-index.html


Others are free to explore as well!

It will be hard to find a more detailed honest approach to the comparisons as to what is written in the Hebrew bible compared to the Christian one.

Thank you! I remember visiting this site when it was a forum years ago and had lost contact over time. I've saved it for future reference. I remember now,  how Uri Yosef charts the Hebrew and gives such detailed explanations including the history. One of the best!

[Dana]

I myself had been a sincere and truly believing christian for many, many years, since my childhood. I even studied theology at an regular university for three semesters. I can understand the motivation, preventing other people from being "doomed" thru telling them the "true christian faith". But, in my opinion, coming to a jewish forum and trying to proselytize seems to be very, very impolite.

G-d has an ancient covenant with the people of israel. Jesus himself (as far as we know today according to modern christian theology) observed the Torah. The apostles did it also.

I would recommend to research the role of the apostle Paul and the early church history (on scientifically resilient sources of course). Do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

For me, as I described above, it took three semesters at the university to understand. I quit the studies and I was very embittered.

I then focused my studies to the roots: who is G-d? When did HE contact mankind and how did HE do it? What did G-d say? How did HE be behave? What did G-d expect from the humans? What happened with Adam, Noah, and the other patriarchs? What were the incidents round about the people of Israel, what was the role of Moses? What was the Holy Temple and  what role did it play? And the most important question to me was: can we have a connection to G-d today and if, how? What does HE expect from us?

As for me: I found my answers!

Hi GavrielbenNoah77,

Thank you for sharing your faith experiences and subsequently centered your search.  I always find to be very interesting personal stories of those of us who once embraced the Christian faith and have left it behind.  The reasons appear to vary! What I've discovered is there exists a wide and diverse range on what motivated and influenced our decisions to leave. 

Many people lose their belief in G-d due to suffering in the world or unanswered prayer. I've never thought that to be persuasive or should be a reason to lose faith. Mine came rather unexpectedly when I was studying the Hebrew language while attending a Christian congregation. I literally fell in love with the language and had a fascination with Israel, quite supportive and remain so.

I relate strongly with what Gavriel Aryeh Sanders wrote when he said that over time the studies of Hebrew caused fractures in his faith. But he pressed forward and made the necessary transitions with what he learned and that was for him conversion. There remained that feeling of searching for solid footing and yes, as you wrote, an embitterment followed.  I wonder if this is common for sincere believers. A period to transition emotionally.  It takes time I guess.

My book reading became scattered, wide in subject matter, nothing really focused or centered such as where your mind seemed to have went, and that for me more towards history and past civilizations and solidifying my Hebrew although I've slowed down with that.

Welcome aboard. I try to stay in touch with this Jewish forum because it has been the best I've experienced and was here for me when I left my faith.  Many good book recommendations have been given here.

[searchinmyroots]

You says that proselitizing is forbidden but you also are proselitizyng above

Please note the name of the forum - The Jewish Forums

Where do you see that I was proselytizing? 

Looks to me as if I was jut stating facts and opinion. Did I ever ask you or suggest to others they convert to Judaism?

We can talk about Judaism all day in all different aspects here, because that is what the forum is for, Judaism.

As far as other religions or beliefs are concerned, we can have a discussion with questions and answers or just share things, but here proselytizing is not welcome.

Just as I'm quite sure a Christian forum would not allow us to proselytize about Judaism, although we no not seek converts.

So what is your point of being here, why did you join the forum?

It looks to be for the purpose of explaining the Christian view of our Hebrew bible.

You did that.

I showed you where you were mistaken.

What is left to discuss?

[searchinmyroots]

What is left to discuss?

What is in that file is not entirely convincing
[/quote]

That's okay.

It isn't meant to be convincing, it is meant to show what the Hebrew words really are and mean as opposed to what the Christian bible claims.

How can you understand what is written in the Hebrew bible if you don't understand what the Hebrew words mean?



As I mentioned previously, you don't have to be convinced and you can believe what you think the holy spirit guides you to.