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What about the prophecies of old testament?
#21
Here is the source for George's post -

http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm
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#22
"The book was written b Rachmiel Frydland." A Christian Jew, clearly written from a Christian viewpoint.
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#23
(06-30-2020, 09:25 PM)Ismq Wrote: How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.

(07-02-2020, 10:27 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I just read your post again and I see you made some revisions.

So yes, the servant was rejected.

Yes, the servant would not open his mouth.

No, nothing about crucified with criminals, where does it say that?

No, nothing about being a sacrifice for sin, where does it say that?

You cannot take a line here and there and understand the content unless you read and understand the whole of what is written.

Since I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine -

Did Jesus have many deaths?

Is Jesus in the plural?

Was Jesus wounded from the sin of others and by his knowledge we are justified?

Was Jesus guilty of sin?

All of this is clearly written in Isaiah 53. If just one of the answers is no, then it cannot apply to Jesus.

(07-03-2020, 04:21 PM)Chavak Wrote: "The book was written b Rachmiel Frydland."    A Christian Jew, clearly written from a Christian viewpoint.

It is documented with the thoughts of Jewish Rabbis.
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#24
(07-03-2020, 04:39 PM)George Wrote: It is documented with the thoughts of Jewish Rabbis.

As I mentioned previously, unless you understand the whole of what was written in it's entirety, then just quoting some lines here and there have no meaning.


I'm not sure why Christians quote the rabbi's, unless of course it seems to be for their agenda. 

Do you know some of those same rabbi's adamantly reject the thought that Jesus was the awaited Jewish messiah?

So quote the rabbi's when it looks like Jesus but dismiss them when they say he wasn't the messiah.

If all you wrote that was quoted makes it so clear that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Jesus, why didn't the rabbi's who wrote those quotes agree?
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#25
(06-30-2020, 09:25 PM)Ismq Wrote: How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.

(07-02-2020, 10:27 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I just read your post again and I see you made some revisions.

So yes, the servant was rejected.

Yes, the servant would not open his mouth.

No, nothing about crucified with criminals, where does it say that?

No, nothing about being a sacrifice for sin, where does it say that?

You cannot take a line here and there and understand the content unless you read and understand the whole of what is written.

Since I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine -

Did Jesus have many deaths?

Is Jesus in the plural?

Was Jesus wounded from the sin of others and by his knowledge we are justified?

Was Jesus guilty of sin?

All of this is clearly written in Isaiah 53. If just one of the answers is no, then it cannot apply to Jesus.

(07-03-2020, 05:41 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 04:39 PM)George Wrote: It is documented with the thoughts of Jewish Rabbis.

As I mentioned previously, unless you understand the whole of what was written in it's entirety, then just quoting some lines here and there have no meaning.


I'm not sure why Christians quote the rabbi's, unless of course it seems to be for their agenda. 

Do you know some of those same rabbi's adamantly reject the thought that Jesus was the awaited Jewish messiah?

So quote the rabbi's when it looks like Jesus but dismiss them when they say he wasn't the messiah.

If all you wrote that was quoted makes it so clear that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Jesus, why didn't the rabbi's who wrote those quotes agree?

Isaiah 53  was speaking of the Messiah, not giving the Messiah a name.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the visions of the night, and behold with the clouds of the heaven, one like a man was coming, and he came up to the Ancient of Days and was brought before Him.

Rashi's comment:

One like a man was coming:  That is the King Messiah.
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#26
(07-03-2020, 05:58 PM), George Wrote: Isaiah 53  was speaking of the Messiah, not giving the Messiah a name.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the visions of the night, and behold with the clouds of the heaven, one like a man was coming, and he came up to the Ancient of Days and was brought before Him.

Rashi's comment:

One like a man was coming:  That is the King Messiah.

No George, Isaiah 53 may be speaking of the messianic age, but not the awaited Jewish messiah.

And what of Daniel 7:13?

Daniel has a dream and Rashi is commenting on it.

What about the rest of the chapter?

What does the next verse say George -

14 - And He gave him dominion and glory and a kingdom, and all peoples, nations, and tongues shall serve him; his dominion is an eternal dominion, which will not be removed, and his kingdom is one which will not be destroyed. 

If you believe verse 13 is about Jesus and that Jesus has come to Earth as the awaited Jewish messiah, then how come all peoples, nations and tongues are not serving him as verse 14 says?
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#27
(07-03-2020, 07:02 PM)Ismq Wrote: What have you said does not fit with verse 12.bore israel the sin of many? Interceded israel for the transgressors? And also verse 6.Laid God on israel the iniquity of us? As have you said it have to be speaking of jesus or not.so,analizying this it is not about israel.

As I suspected, you probably haven't read any of the material I posted.

If you want an answer to your question, read the attachment below and the link here - http://thejewishhome.org/counter/Isa53JP.pdf

It explains verse 12, 6 and all of the others.

You may think it is too long to read, but all of your questions will be answered.

When you are finished reading them, then we can continue our discussion.

Thank you.


Attached Files
.pdf   Isaiah_52-54[1 Rev 1] Final.pdf (Size: 346.63 KB / Downloads: 0)
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#28
(07-03-2020, 08:14 PM)Ismq Wrote: The explanations(some trying to disguise the real matter) in that file do not achieve to refute the meaning of the passage.still remain the real sense when you read it may in be in the hebrew bible or other translations.

I'm not sure what you mean by "trying to disguise the real matter". They aren't disguising anything, they are just showing you as I have where there are similar passages in the Hebrew bible and they all speak of Israel as a people.

They aren't "refuting the meaning of the passage", they are telling you what it actually means and how it matches up with other passages throughout the Hebrew bible.

I've given you enough information to try and understand what the Hebrew bible actually says, but it seems no matter what I provide, you are always going to think it is about Jesus.

So what's the point of furthering the discussion?

The real sticking point for you is that verse 10 specifically says the servant is guilty.

Christians don't have an answer for that so they try and focus on other verses.
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#29
(07-03-2020, 08:50 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I've given you enough information to try and understand what the Hebrew bible actually says, but it seems no matter what I provide, you are always going to think it is about Jesus.

So what's the point of furthering the discussion?

Discussions with Christian fundamentalists are often like this. You have more patience than me!
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#30
(07-03-2020, 09:03 PM)robrecht Wrote:
(07-03-2020, 08:50 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I've given you enough information to try and understand what the Hebrew bible actually says, but it seems no matter what I provide, you are always going to think it is about Jesus.

So what's the point of furthering the discussion?

Discussions with Christian fundamentalists are often like this. You have more patience than me!

Thanks Rob for the kind words!

Yes, I've been dong this for many years.

My purpose is not only to show and explain what the Hebrew bible really says to the person I am having the discussion with, but to also let the "onlookers" who may be reading the thread see as well.

It just seems so strange that some think they can understand the Hebrew bible without understanding Hebrew, the language it is written in!

I'm not proficient in Hebrew myself but all one has to do is read from those who are.

It's self explanatory after that!
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