Judaism Psychology Of The Mind - Soulmates, Dating & Relationships

[Dana]

I can't believe that we still have to have these conversations in 2020. What in the world is wrong with this world? And with people who know next to nothing about the Torah. Fantastic.

I have to wonder how different things would be if the 2nd Century Marcion, Philosopher-teacher,  had won during the formation of the Christian canon. He had concluded that the God of Jesus (and Paul) was not the God of the Torah and Tanach.  Orthodox Christianity fought back and prevailed and so we have the same thinking in the 21st Century still telling Jewish people what God wants for them.

[RabbiO]

If you believe in judaism you should condemn it.

This is just what the world needs - another non-Jew who admits that he knows very little about Judaism but still wants to tell Jews how to be Jews, wants to tell Jews how to live as Jews, wants to tell Jews what as Jews they are supposed to believe.

Maybe there is a language issue here, but you're coming across as both arrogant and ignorant, not the best combination of character.

At this point I really have no interest in pursuing dialogue with you, but since you're here - Putting aside the passages in Leviticus, for which there are a couple of different ways to look at them, for the moment, you still have not presented anything from the Tanakh that you think indicates a condemnation of female homosexuality.

[Jason]

The torah don't say it that literally but is understood what is  implied in the verse=that's abomination to God.

I'm sorry, but when you come to condemn people, "implied" isn't good enough.

[Robis]

It does indeed NOT deal with homosexuality. It deals with a sex act, an act that many gay observant Jewish men do not engage in.

(1) The Torah does not say "you shall not have romantic attachments with members of the same sex."
(2) It does not say "you shall not touch another's hand or any other part of his body if he belongs to the same sex as you."
(3) It prohibits one specific activity, just as it does not prohibit eating anything and everything, but it limits what foods you can partake of.

You're reading your cultural issues into the Torah and making it say things that it doesn't say. Why? Because you think gay is icky. Well, suck it up. It's none of your business if another person is gay or lesbian or left-handed. Your nose doesn't belong in their bedroom or looking over their shoulder.

Bershit 2:24
על־כן יעזב־איש את־אביו ואת־אמו ודבק באשתו והיו לבשר אחד
Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and cling to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

When men and men / women and women do things, they do not דבק and do not become one flesh. Even if they do not engage in the act itself, they are avoiding of doing a positive commandment. It's written in plain text.
Also Sedom and Amora were destroyed because of their disgusting behavior (well also for their inhospitality to strangers, but nevertheless).

Torah and the relations between men and women bring life. Homosexuality does not. It only brings freedom of action and brings more and more sins to the world.

Deut. 30:19-20
I call heaven and earth to witness this day against you, that I have set before thee life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
that thou mayst love the Hashem thy G-d, and that thou mayst obey His voice, and that thou mayst cleave to Him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayst dwell in the land which the Hashem swore to thy fathers, to Avraham, to Yiżĥaq, and to Ya῾aqov, to give them.

I will probably not waste my time here anymore, because I cannot help you.
You know the truth, but you just reject it.
I really hope and pray that you will do teshuva before Mashiach comes.

[Ismq]

It does indeed NOT deal with homosexuality. It deals with a sex act, an act that many gay observant Jewish men do not engage in.

(1) The Torah does not say "you shall not have romantic attachments with members of the same sex."
(2) It does not say "you shall not touch another's hand or any other part of his body if he belongs to the same sex as you."
(3) It prohibits one specific activity, just as it does not prohibit eating anything and everything, but it limits what foods you can partake of.

You're reading your cultural issues into the Torah and making it say things that it doesn't say. Why? Because you think gay is icky. Well, suck it up. It's none of your business if another person is gay or lesbian or left-handed. Your nose doesn't belong in their bedroom or looking over their shoulder.

Bershit 2:24
על־כן יעזב־איש את־אביו ואת־אמו ודבק באשתו והיו לבשר אחד
Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and cling to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

When men and men / women and women do things, they do not דבק and do not become one flesh. Even if they do not engage in the act itself, they are avoiding of doing a positive commandment. It's written in plain text.
Also Sedom and Amora were destroyed because of their disgusting behavior (well also for their inhospitality to strangers, but nevertheless).

Torah and the relations between men and women bring life. Homosexuality does not. It only brings freedom of action and brings more and more sins to the world.

Deut. 30:19-20
I call heaven and earth to witness this day against you, that I have set before thee life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
that thou mayst love the Hashem thy G-d, and that thou mayst obey His voice, and that thou mayst cleave to Him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayst dwell in the land which the Hashem swore to thy fathers, to Avraham, to Yiżĥaq, and to Ya῾aqov, to give them.

I will probably not waste my time here anymore, because I cannot help you.
You know the truth, but you just reject it.
I really hope and pray that you will do teshuva before Mashiach comes.

I agree with you.i'm not giving christian explanations to the torah.one no needs to be a genius to realize that God disaprove that behaviour.

[RabbiO]

I agree with you.i'm not giving christian explanations to the torah.one no needs to be a genius to realize that God disaprove that behaviour.

I’m still waiting for you to provide those passages in the Tanakh that you believe support your contention that female homosexuality is condemned.

By the way, who said anything about Christian explanations?

[Jason]

I will probably not waste my time here anymore, because I cannot help you.
You know the truth, but you just reject it.
I really hope and pray that you will do teshuva before Mashiach comes.

I'm not interested in your help, and I don't think you have a clue what "truth" even means. The problem with the religiously obsessive is that they find a religious opinion and then think that everyone else should conform to it. The truly pious come to their religious opinion and seek how they can apply it to themselves.

Again, it's fine that you have your backwards and primitive opinions. Don't try to force them on other people, though. If you're here to try to convert me or force me to do any kind of religious observance that violates my own conscience, you can piss off just as quickly as you came.

[Jason]

Let it be stated clearly: I'm a Hebrew teacher, not a moral philosopher. I don't care about people's moral opinions, so long as they leave me the hell alone with them. I am free to have my own opinions and don't need to defend them to you. If that's a problem for you, if you think you can browbeat me into denying the rights of an entire group of people, if you think that you will force my hand on anything at all, you don't have a place on this forum.

[Jason]

You can't ignore what Hashem is speaking here. Of course, every single man has a choice, if to be against Jews or for Jews, and they get what they choose. But Hashem is using those, who chose to be against as a punishment.

And therein lies the rub. I don't see that there is a choice for gay people to NOT be gay. It's not an action that one does. It's part and parcel of the personality and the identity of the individual, and it's way beyond a sex act and a choice to violate a religious precept. The problem is that this is all you can see. "Gay" means "having sex in the bum." Well, I'm sorry, but that's not what gay means, and the hypersexualization of gay people, allowing them to be nothing more than a perceived sex act, is the root of the problem.

You are unable to choose to be gay. A gay person is unable to choose to be straight. A bisexual person may choose to engage in a relationship with either sex, and a pansexual with people from the gender spectrum. The fact that some people have choice in their sexuality doesn't mean that everyone does. If you are straight and can choose to be gay, then I'll change my mind on this issue.

[Dana]

Actually, considering the title of the thread and reading through some of the "helpful" suggestions brought to mind a certain  quote from C.S. Lewis.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”