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Atonement on Yom Kippur
#1
I have not been able to find any to provide an adequate answer to this question. The Torah requires the kappara of Yom Kippur to include the service of the Kohen Gadol. This means that without the Beis Hamikdash there is no actual way to achieve the atonement for Yom Kippur, period. 
It cannot be claimed that mere prayer is sufficient for this annual atonement because that would be changing the halacha required by the Torah and is not found anywhere. Furthermore, it cannot be argued that mere prayer REPLACES the service of the Kohen Gadol because EVEN IN THE TIME of the Temple people engaged in prayer. Fasting cannot replace the service because fasting on Yom Kippur is a SEPARATE mitzvah that is not restricted to the Temple, but applies in all times.
I'd be interested in people's informed comments about this mystery.
Duvduv
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#2
Hello Duvduv and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

I'm sure others here will chime in on your question.

My quick answers -

How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples?  

The Torah says it is the day that will atone.

The Hebrew bible tells us what to do when there is no Temple or when in exile.

Please refrain from your "period" stance. Thank you.
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#3
(06-16-2021, 12:01 AM)searchinmyroots wrote: Hello Duvduv and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

I'm sure others here will chime in on your question.

My quick answers -

How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples?  

The Torah says it is the day that will atone.

The Hebrew bible tells us what to do when there is no Temple or when in exile.

Please refrain from your "period" stance. Thank I
I was hoping to see some explanations from commentators. Because essentially what you are saying is that the service of the Kohen Gadol is not that important. In the case of impurity from the dead we remain impure because there is no red heifer etc. Everyone acknowledges this. Yet we don't acknowledge the lack of the atonement through the service of the High Priest on Yom kippur for the Jewish people
Reply
#4
(06-16-2021, 05:49 AM)Duvduv wrote:
(06-16-2021, 12:01 AM)searchinmyroots wrote: Hello Duvduv and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

I'm sure others here will chime in on your question.

My quick answers -

How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples?  

The Torah says it is the day that will atone.

The Hebrew bible tells us what to do when there is no Temple or when in exile.

Please refrain from your "period" stance. Thank I
I was hoping to see some explanations from commentators. Because essentially what you are saying is that the service of the Kohen Gadol is not that important. In the case of impurity from the dead we remain impure because there is no red heifer etc. Everyone acknowledges this. Yet we don't acknowledge the lack of the atonement through the service of the High Priest on Yom kippur for the Jewish people

You mentioned what you are looking for is not mentioned in the Torah so why would any commentary help you?

Not sure why you are putting words in my mouth as I never said the service of the Kohen Gadol is not that important.

I'm curious as to why you ignored my question - How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples? 

And why you didn't acknowledge that the Hebrew bible explains in detail what to do in exile.
Reply
#5
(06-16-2021, 01:07 PM)searchinmyroots wrote:
(06-16-2021, 05:49 AM)Duvduv wrote:
(06-16-2021, 12:01 AM)I assume the status of the atonement of the avoda was the same in the 70 years as now, as I described.  I am interested in commentaries on this issue, but haven\t found any yet. searchinmyroots wrote: Hello Duvduv and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

I'm sure others here will chime in on your question.

My quick answers -

How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples?  

The Torah says it is the day that will atone.

The Hebrew bible tells us what to do when there is no Temple or when in exile.

Please refrain from your "period" stance. Thank I
I was hoping to see some explanations from commentators. Because essentially what you are saying is that the service of the Kohen Gadol is not that important. In the case of impurity from the dead we remain impure because there is no red heifer etc. Everyone acknowledges this. Yet we don't acknowledge the lack of the atonement through the service of the High Priest on Yom kippur for the Jewish people

You mentioned what you are looking for is not mentioned in the Torah so why would any commentary help you?

Not sure why you are putting words in my mouth as I never said the service of the Kohen Gadol is not that important.

I'm curious as to why you ignored my question - How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples? 

And why you didn't acknowledge that the Hebrew bible explains in detail what to do in exile.
Reply
#6
(06-16-2021, 01:36 PM)Duvduv wrote:
(06-16-2021, 01:07 PM)searchinmyroots wrote:
(06-16-2021, 05:49 AM)Duvduv wrote:
(06-16-2021, 12:01 AM)I assume the status of the atonement of the avoda was the same in the 70 years as now, as I described.  I am interested in commentaries on this issue, but haven\t found any yet. searchinmyroots wrote: Hello Duvduv and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

I'm sure others here will chime in on your question.

My quick answers -

How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples?  

The Torah says it is the day that will atone.

The Hebrew bible tells us what to do when there is no Temple or when in exile.

Please refrain from your "period" stance. Thank I
I was hoping to see some explanations from commentators. Because essentially what you are saying is that the service of the Kohen Gadol is not that important. In the case of impurity from the dead we remain impure because there is no red heifer etc. Everyone acknowledges this. Yet we don't acknowledge the lack of the atonement through the service of the High Priest on Yom kippur for the Jewish people

You mentioned what you are looking for is not mentioned in the Torah so why would any commentary help you?

Not sure why you are putting words in my mouth as I never said the service of the Kohen Gadol is not that important.

I'm curious as to why you ignored my question - How did the Israelite's observe Yom Kippur for 70 years between the 2 Temples? 

And why you didn't acknowledge that the Hebrew bible explains in detail what to do in exile.


So what do you think happened during those 70 years? There certainly were many prophets who wrote during those times and Daniel did as well. Do you think they did nothing and there was no way to be forgiven?

Or does the Hebrew bible point to other ways?

I think it does, in several places.

I don't know of any commentary on this subject off of the top of my head, but I'll see if I can locate any for you.

It is an interesting question though, thanks for asking.
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#7
The Torah, and the Talmud, which provides the information and opinions of the Sages. However, I have not found an explanation of the fate of the Torah requirements of the High Priest for the nation when there is no Temple. If the service of the Priest were "extra" then we would see it said in either the Babylonian or Jerusalem Talmud. What the Priest did on Yom Kippur is beyond the strength of human beings, and cannot possibly be considered as extra. He didn't sleep for over 24 hours, he immersed in the mikveh several times, changed clothes, sacrificed animals, sprinkled the blood, and did it all BY HIMSELF in bare feet. But this was for the atonement of the House of Israel. So what happened between Temples and in the past 2000 years?
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