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Israel: Is lack of factual information why some Jews believe “Palestinian” Arab propaganda?
#11
(10-22-2021, 06:04 AM)5178 wrote:...I have no patience with historical revisionists who wish to destroy our true history so that they may posit falsehoods to replace the truth...
Then there are those virtual signalers who wish to post-humusly punish historical figures of whom they assesed as evil.
The following one should be thankful for not having remained in her native Africa where she would have faced genital mutilation, if she isn't already a victim of such. Instead, she's busy with her own form of statue-toppling. You could imagine what would happen to me, if I went to Turkey, in order to topple monuments dedicated to the sultans who have oppressed my ancestors during the Ottoman occupation.

https://www.mixedracestudies.org/?tag=josephine-apraku

Quote:...Mic Oala, Shaheen Wacker, Nela Biedermann, Josephine Apraku, Jacqueline Mayen, and Kristin Lein remained in contact and eventually established a Berlin-based multicultural German feminist collective...

https://www.dw.com/en/berlins-african-qu...a-43474130

The German government, as well as any other country's government of which is facing similar issues, has more important issues to debate on, as long as greater injustices are still taking place there. Here, she  uses "we", despite the entire "we" neither being asked nor do all agree.
If I were to be asked, there would be no shortage of names belonging to living persons who I would prefer banned from public use:

https://www.dw.com/en/berlins-african-qu...a-43474130

Quote:...we can't keep these names," local resident Josephine Apraku told DW...

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F9DOS...f=1&nofb=1]
[/quote]
Reply
#12
Ironic isnt it? From the Nazis to the Present those who shout Death to the Jews/Yehudi...
on the one hand they deny there ever was a country called Judea....yet Jews/Yehudi means an
inhabinent of Judea...in other words their own mouths have testified against themselves...
Reply
#13
(09-29-2021, 03:36 PM)Robert wrote: Typical examples of “Palestinian” Arab falsehood propaganda, together with a brief rebuttal:
 
The Jews:
 
i) Invaded a place called “Palestine”:
Proper name = Israel / Judah.
“Palestine” is the Roman attempted-rename, only twice in history used as a name for the land, but by foreign imperial powers: the Romans, and the British.
There never has been any indigenous “Palestine” sovereign state.
(Why call it “Palestine”?: Because it would not make such effective propaganda to accuse the JEWS of stealing “JUDAH”!)...

Perhaps I'm the victim of Arab falsehood propaganda, but I have the impression that the Jewish scriptures depict the tribes of Israel fighting against the other peoples of Canaan from the very beginning of their entry into the promised land. Indeed, aren't some ancient Palestinians (פלסטינים ,פַּלֶשְׂתִינַאִי) actually referred to in the Bible as the Philistines (פְּלִשְׁתִּים֙)?

And it's not like Hadrian invented the term Palestinian Syria. Already Herodotus referred to this region as the (part of) Syria called Palestine (Συρίη ἡ Παλαιστίνη καλεομένη).
Reply
#14
(10-22-2021, 02:51 PM)Alan_Boskov wrote:
(10-22-2021, 06:04 AM)Daryavesh wrote:...I have no patience with historical revisionists who wish to destroy our true history so that they may posit falsehoods to replace the truth...
Then there are those virtual signalers who wish to post-humusly punish historical figures of whom they assesed as evil.
The following one should be thankful for not having remained in her native Africa where she would have faced genital mutilation, if she isn't already a victim of such. Instead, she's busy with her own form of statue-toppling. You could imagine what would happen to me, if I went to Turkey, in order to topple monuments dedicated to the sultans who have oppressed my ancestors during the Ottoman occupation.

https://www.mixedracestudies.org/?tag=josephine-apraku

Quote:...Mic Oala, Shaheen Wacker, Nela Biedermann, Josephine Apraku, Jacqueline Mayen, and Kristin Lein remained in contact and eventually established a Berlin-based multicultural German feminist collective...

https://www.dw.com/en/berlins-african-qu...a-43474130

The German government, as well as any other country's government of which is facing similar issues, has more important issues to debate on, as long as greater injustices are still taking place there. Here, she  uses "we", despite the entire "we" neither being asked nor do all agree.

If I were to be asked, there would be no shortage of names belonging to living persons who I would prefer banned from public use:

https://www.dw.com/en/berlins-african-qu...a-43474130

Quote:...we can't keep these names," local resident Josephine Apraku told DW...

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.psychologytoday.com...f=1&nofb=1]

Alan, why do her words conjur up images in my mind of brownshirts burning books and destroying truthful remembrances of times past (history)?

Best regards,

Daryavesh
Reply
#15
(10-23-2021, 12:02 PM)robrecht wrote:
(09-29-2021, 03:36 PM)Robert wrote: Typical examples of “Palestinian” Arab falsehood propaganda, together with a brief rebuttal:
 
The Jews:
 
i) Invaded a place called “Palestine”:
Proper name = Israel / Judah.
“Palestine” is the Roman attempted-rename, only twice in history used as a name for the land, but by foreign imperial powers: the Romans, and the British.
There never has been any indigenous “Palestine” sovereign state.
(Why call it “Palestine”?: Because it would not make such effective propaganda to accuse the JEWS of stealing “JUDAH”!)...

Perhaps I'm the victim of Arab falsehood propaganda, but I have the impression that the Jewish scriptures depict the tribes of Israel fighting against the other peoples of Canaan from the very beginning of their entry into the promised land. Indeed, aren't some ancient Palestinians (פלסטינים ,פַּלֶשְׂתִינַאִי) actually referred to in the Bible as the Philistines (פְּלִשְׁתִּים֙)?

And it's not like Hadrian invented the term Palestinian Syria. Already Herodotus referred to this region as the (part of) Syria called Palestine (Συρίη ἡ Παλαιστίνη καλεομένη).

Thank you for your reply. 
Yes, indeed the Bible does describe the Children of Israel being under the command of G-d to take the Promised land Canaan, from the Canaanites. 

It also mentions the separate people within that land along its coast, called the Philistines, whose region was referred to as: 
Hebrew: פלשת , “Pleshet”, 
Latin: “Palæstina”, 
Greek: “Philistia”: 
https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine


“Philistia” boundaries: From its south (approx. today’s Gaza) from Wadi El-Arish, to its North the Yarkon River (approx. today’s Jaffa), at its East the Kingdom of Judah, and to its West the Mediterranean Sea:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...30_map.svg

The Palestinian Arabs have no connection with either the ancient Canaanites or the ancient Philistines; neither of whom exist today.

Some contributors and websites either erroneously or dishonestly purport that Herodotus’ mention of Palestine was to the whole of the land of Israel. Rather, Herodotus was referring to an area much smaller than the land of Israel, to the region of the Philistines (“Philistia”) (as should be clear from the historian's use of the description "sea-coast"): 
- - - - Start of English translation extract: - - - -

Quote:“These Phoenicians [...] now inhabit the sea-coast of Syria; that part of Syria and as much of it as reaches to Egypt, is all called Palestine.”
 
Translation extract source:
 
HERODOTUS , Book VII: chapter 89:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...s/7b*.html
 
Alternative link:
https://www.loebclassics.com/view/herodo...ode=reader
 
- - - - End of English translation extract - - - -
Reply
#16
Even that translation is distorted, given that the Phoenecians were an entirely separate group from that of the Philistines:

https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/bible-a...1077BC.htm

' wrote:...1. Caesar Hadrian renamed Judea “Palestine” which means literally: “Land of the Philistines”

a. Today when you visit Jerusalem and one of the local Arabs insists you call it Palestine not Israel, ask him if he is a decendant of Goliath the Philistine.

b. Today, there is no “land of Palestine” or “Palestinian people” any more than there are Philistines!

c. 99% of these Arabs living in Israel today are migrants from other Muslim nations with no occupational history more than a few dozen years.

d. In AD 1900, almost nobody lived in Canaan/Israel.

e. The Palestinian cause is a lie.

2. The origin of the Philistines is the Island of Crete.

3. The Philistines continued to hold power down to the Babylonian captivity of 605 BC:...

[Image: philistinesmap.jpg]
Reply
#17
The map in the preceeding message is when the david-Solomon empire split into two nations


 Map of the 12 Tribes of Israel
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...el_Map.svg

Map of the Kingdom of Israel
File:Kingdom of Israel 1020 map.svg - Wikimedia Commons

The L-d; the People of Israel and the Land of Israel
Jewish Claim to the Land: Ask the Rabbi Response (aish.com)
History Crash Course #5: The Promised Land (aish.com)
The Guiding Light Parshat Bereishit: The First Rashi (aish.com)
Israel's Right to the Land (aish.com)
Reply
#18
(10-28-2021, 03:44 AM)Alan_Boskov wrote: Even that translation is distorted, given that the Phoenecians were an entirely separate group from that of the Philistines:

https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/bible-a...1077BC.htm

Comparing the Phoenicians (referred to by Herodotus) with the Philistines:
- - - - Start of extract: - - - -

Quote:"To the north of Israel along the coast were powerful cities involved with Mediterranean trade networks, including Tyre, Sidon, and Byblos—cities [today's Lebanon] grouped under the heading “Phoenician.” [...] 

Along the southern coast, the Philistines lived clustered around key cities such as Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gath, and Ekron."

Extract source:
"Israel’s Neighbors and the Problem of the Past" by Brian R. Doak: 
https://oxford.universitypressscholarshi...-chapter-1

- - - - End of extract - - - -

There is however no confirmation Herodotus ever visited the Israel area of the Levant:
https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-h.../herodotus
Reply
#19
(10-27-2021, 11:48 PM)Robert wrote:
(10-23-2021, 12:02 PM)robrecht wrote:
(09-29-2021, 03:36 PM)Robert wrote: Typical examples of “Palestinian” Arab falsehood propaganda, together with a brief rebuttal:
 
The Jews:
 
i) Invaded a place called “Palestine”:
Proper name = Israel / Judah.
“Palestine” is the Roman attempted-rename, only twice in history used as a name for the land, but by foreign imperial powers: the Romans, and the British.
There never has been any indigenous “Palestine” sovereign state.
(Why call it “Palestine”?: Because it would not make such effective propaganda to accuse the JEWS of stealing “JUDAH”!)...

Perhaps I'm the victim of Arab falsehood propaganda, but I have the impression that the Jewish scriptures depict the tribes of Israel fighting against the other peoples of Canaan from the very beginning of their entry into the promised land. Indeed, aren't some ancient Palestinians (פלסטינים ,פַּלֶשְׂתִינַאִי) actually referred to in the Bible as the Philistines (פְּלִשְׁתִּים֙)?

And it's not like Hadrian invented the term Palestinian Syria. Already Herodotus referred to this region as the (part of) Syria called Palestine (Συρίη ἡ Παλαιστίνη καλεομένη).

Thank you for your reply. 
Yes, indeed the Bible does describe the Children of Israel being under the command of G-d to take the Promised land Canaan, from the Canaanites. 

It also mentions the separate people within that land along its coast, called the Philistines, whose region was referred to as: 
Hebrew: פלשת , “Pleshet”, 
Latin: “Palæstina”, 
Greek: “Philistia”: 
https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine


“Philistia” boundaries: From its south (approx. today’s Gaza) from Wadi El-Arish, to its North the Yarkon River (approx. today’s Jaffa), at its East the Kingdom of Judah, and to its West the Mediterranean Sea:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...30_map.svg

The Palestinian Arabs have no connection with either the ancient Canaanites or the ancient Philistines; neither of whom exist today.

Some contributors and websites either erroneously or dishonestly purport that Herodotus’ mention of Palestine was to the whole of the land of Israel. Rather, Herodotus was referring to an area much smaller than the land of Israel, to the region of the Philistines (“Philistia”) (as should be clear from the historian's use of the description "sea-coast"): 
- - - - Start of English translation extract: - - - -
 

Quote:“These Phoenicians [...] now inhabit the sea-coast of Syria; that part of Syria and as much of it as reaches to Egypt, is all called Palestine.”

 
Translation extract source:
 
HERODOTUS , Book VII: chapter 89:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...s/7b*.html
 
Alternative link:
https://www.loebclassics.com/view/herodo...ode=reader
 
- - - - End of English translation extract - - - -

You're very welcome. It's hard to say how far in-land the Philistines ventured. Genetic analyses seem to indicate that they rather quickly intermarried with local Canaanites. Biblical tales, if I recall correctly, have them venturing as far east as the region around Shiloh, where they captured the ark of the covenant. I'd love to know more about the Philistines, the other sea peoples, and the Phoenicians.
Reply
#20
(10-28-2021, 03:44 AM)lan_Boskov wrote: Even that translation is distorted, given that the Phoenecians were an entirely separate group from that of the Philistines:

https://www.bible.ca/manuscripts/bible-a...1077BC.htm

How would you translate that passage from Herodotus? I'm considering whether or not Herodotus could have confused the Red Sea with the Sea around Eruthrae, whose people claimed to have come from Crete, according to Pausanias. This would also relate the Phoenicians with the sea peoples and thus also with the Philistines.
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