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+--- Thread: God's election is sovereign. (/showthread.php?tid=1165)
RE: God's election is sovereign. - searchinmyroots - 04-28-2023
(04-27-2023, 10:57 PM)RabbiO Wrote: It is one thing to present a viewpoint and note where beliefs differ. It is a good thing to learn about the beliefs of others. You cross a line when you are not content to simply learn about those beliefs but instead feel the need to argue and try to convince.
Well said RabbiO, thank you.
RE: God's election is sovereign. - searchinmyroots - 04-28-2023
Yes, G-d works in mysterious ways.
This popped up on my feed this morning.
Two former Christians talking about the "curse of the law".
Coincidence?
RE: God's election is sovereign. - veil23 - 04-29-2023
(04-27-2023, 08:36 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: Excuse me, but this is our forum, a Jewish forum, and when we see proselytizing, we call it for what it is.-Adam broke one law and immediately found himself outside of G-d. "where art thou?" says G-d. Did G-d not know where Adam was? Of course He did -what He was saying was "Adam you now stand in no relation to me". G-d did forgive Adam but forgiveness was not enough. Adam must be destroyed and be born back again from G-d as he was when G-d first breathed the breath of life in him. G-d found a way to save Adam from Adam and make a new Adam thus He promised a seed shall come, etc..
Fact - Lucifer is nowhere to be found in the Hebrew bible, that is a Christian invention.
Fact - No one person can keep all of the laws because they don't apply to everyone. Where does it say in the Hebrew bible you have to keep all of the commandments perfectly? If G-d thought we could, He wouldn't have given us ways of repentance and forgiveness.
Fact - The law is Not a curse and if you actually read the Hebrew bible, G-d says we can keep them. Your argument is with G-d if you think otherwise.
Fact - Jesus is never mentioned in the Hebrew bible and it never says anything about pouring guilt on to a messiah.
Fact - There are no merits on what you have written as per the Hebrew bible. It is all based on Christian theology.
Fact - You have an obsession with the "10th Commandment".
I'm not going to respond to every one of the multiple verses and claims that are thrown at me as all have been addressed. I'm sorry if you don't see the Hebrew bible for what it is.
Read the refutes by Rabbi Singer, Rabbi Skobac, Uri Yosef and all of the others and if you have a beef with what they wrote, take it up with them.
There is a reason thousands of former Christians are now embracing the teachings of Judaism. And it has nothing to do with the 10th commandment.
-And Again, The law is not a curse for the words of G-d are pure (Psalm 12) and the law of G-d is perfect (Psalm 19) and if righteousness could come by the law it most definitely would have.
-As for guilt not poured out on a suffering Messiah -the blood of hundreds of thousands of animals comes to a different conclusion.
-I like least common denominators and before any one commits any sin they first break the tenth. It is not an obsession but brass tacks.
-The Hebrew bible is a complete image made up of thousands of individual brush strokes. You cannot take a brush stroke out of context and interpret it correctly. Oh, but if you meditate in it night and day you will fulfill Psalm 1.
-Thank you for the names Of Rabbi Singer, Skobac, and Uri Yosef -I will check them out.
-The teachings of Judaism both past and even present (among the Orthodox, anyway) speak of a resurrection of the dead so why are you so shocked when G-d does it?
-As for proselytizing -fair enough. I will refrain from past tense in referring to the Messiah. Great is the day when G-d makes a New Covenant with the house of Israel and writes His laws in their hearts and minds thus taking out the stoney heart, as in laws written in stone that cannot be obeyed from the outside in...But a new heart, with a new nature to keep them from the inside out. I wonder where Adam is now.
RE: God's election is sovereign. - veil23 - 04-29-2023
(04-27-2023, 10:57 PM)RabbiO Wrote: veil23 -
You are just the latest in a long line of self-righteous, ignorant and arrogant non-Jews who have abused the hospitality of this forum in an attempt to preach and proselytize. Contrary to your perception Jews are not spiritually stupid, spiritually blind, or spiritually ignorant.
It is one thing to present a viewpoint and note where beliefs differ. It is a good thing to learn about the beliefs of others. You cross a line when you are not content to simply learn about those beliefs but instead feel the need to argue and try to convince.
I suspect your sojourn here may be short.
RabbiO, The interesting thing about arrogant people is that they can be humble when the present need requires them to be so. Be very careful how you define words. G-d once sent a flood to save the only man left in the world who had the correct understanding of words -so they could one day reach us. I hope I am allowed to stay long enough to read your response.
-Veil23
RE: God's election is sovereign. - Linde - 04-29-2023
(04-29-2023, 08:14 PM)veil23 Wrote:(04-27-2023, 10:57 PM)RabbiO Wrote: veil23 -
RabbiO, The interesting thing about arrogant people is that they can be humble when the present need requires them to be so. Be very careful how you define words. G-d once sent a flood to save the only man left in the world who had the correct understanding of words -so they could one day reach us. I hope I am allowed to stay long enough to read your response.
-Veil23
Don't you realize that you start to bother us here in this Jewish forum? We are no interested in an Christian theology or the Interpretation of the Torah by any Christians?
RE: God's election is sovereign. - veil23 - 05-01-2023
(04-29-2023, 11:59 PM)Linde Wrote:I can understand you not being interested in what a Christian says concerning the Torah. But what about the different interpretations within Judaism?(04-29-2023, 08:14 PM)veil23 Wrote:(04-27-2023, 10:57 PM)RabbiO Wrote: veil23 -
RabbiO, The interesting thing about arrogant people is that they can be humble when the present need requires them to be so. Be very careful how you define words. G-d once sent a flood to save the only man left in the world who had the correct understanding of words -so they could one day reach us. I hope I am allowed to stay long enough to read your response.
-Veil23
Don't you realize that you start to bother us here in this Jewish forum? We are no interested in an Christian theology or the Interpretation of the Torah by any Christians?
If G-d is one there should only be one interpretation of His word. And I don't say this out of cruelty but with all the love I can -you, as a secular Jewish person, obviously don't want to listen to the Torah.
RE: God's election is sovereign. - searchinmyroots - 05-02-2023
(05-01-2023, 04:54 PM)veil23 Wrote: I can understand you not being interested in what a Christian says concerning the Torah. But what about the different interpretations within Judaism?
If G-d is one there should only be one interpretation of His word.
Well that's a bold statement as I don't see all of Christianity's interpretations lining up.
RE: God's election is sovereign. - veil23 - 05-03-2023
(05-02-2023, 01:14 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-01-2023, 04:54 PM)veil23 Wrote: I can understand you not being interested in what a Christian says concerning the Torah. But what about the different interpretations within Judaism?
If G-d is one there should only be one interpretation of His word.
Well that's a bold statement as I don't see all of Christianity's interpretations lining up.
Christianity has many wrong interpretations. There are many wrong doctrines built on the foundation of Christ and then there are interpretations so
wrong that they are not even on the foundation of Christ (though they would claim they are).
RE: God's election is sovereign. - Linde - 05-03-2023
(05-03-2023, 04:11 PM)veil23 Wrote:(05-02-2023, 01:14 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:(05-01-2023, 04:54 PM)veil23 Wrote: I can understand you not being interested in what a Christian says concerning the Torah. But what about the different interpretations within Judaism?
If G-d is one there should only be one interpretation of His word.
Well that's a bold statement as I don't see all of Christianity's interpretations lining up.
Christianity has many wrong interpretations. There are many wrong doctrines built on the foundation of Christ and then there are interpretations so
wrong that they are not even on the foundation of Christ (though they would claim they are).
How do you know that they are wrong? How do you know that your idea is right? For us Jews, all those Christian ideas sound very wrong!
RE: God's election is sovereign. - searchinmyroots - 05-04-2023
(05-03-2023, 04:11 PM)veil23 Wrote: Christianity has many wrong interpretations. There are many wrong doctrines built on the foundation of Christ and then there are interpretations so
wrong that they are not even on the foundation of Christ (though they would claim they are).
I'll agree with you there!
And each denomination will say their interpretations are the correct ones and the others are wrong. So how can the Holy spirit let that happen?
In Judaism, we don't say (in most cases) that interpretations are wrong. We dig deep to find meaning in every verse, every word, every letter. We believe there may/can be more than one meaning but hold true to the plain meanings.
That's quite different than what you are saying about Christianity.