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+--- Thread: Pray for Peace (/showthread.php?tid=1218)
RE: Pray for Peace - Blue Bird - 10-11-2023
(10-10-2023, 06:32 PM)Robert Wrote:(10-10-2023, 01:48 PM)Blue Bird Wrote: Robert, Shalom also means wholeness, completeness, wellbeing and calm. I think our friends might need this right now.
I want to thank Blue Bird for their response.
That expanded understanding of peace is fine, since praying for that would therefore not be incompatible with Israel dispensing justice upon all those who:
ordered, organized, and took part in, ,
the massacre of around 900 Israeli civilians
(including the massacre of about 250 Israeli young people while they were attending the Supernova music festival in the Negev desert).
I'm glad you liked the expanded understanding of peace and that it makes sense for you to pray for these aspects.
Although I was unable to pray for peace in the sense searchinmyroots suggested, now I think that only God can bring peace (the absence of military action) and justice. We humans can only reach a few of these terrorists and the powers behind them will likely avoid revenge.
And yes, may the IDF people remain safe. I know someone with 2 little children who is somewhere with his tank and it's hard to imagine a ground invasion in Gaza.
RE: Pray for Peace - searchinmyroots - 10-11-2023
When I wrote - "Pray for peace, no matter what is needed to obtain it", I was reflecting on our past and what needed to be done to accomplish peace (at least for a time).
An example would be in the Book of Esther. Not pretty, but necessary.
There are many other biblical instances where G-d worked with us, but we needed to go out and complete the mission.
RE: Pray for Peace - RabbiO - 10-11-2023
(10-11-2023, 03:14 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: When I wrote - "Pray for peace, no matter what is needed to obtain it", I was reflecting on our past and what needed to be done to accomplish peace (at least for a time).
An example would be in the Book of Esther. Not pretty, but necessary.
There are many other biblical instances where G-d worked with us, but we needed to go out and complete the mission.
There is the temporary peace of a cease fire, and then there is a lasting true and equitable peace.
There is the so called justice that is nothing more than taking revenge and then there is true justice appropriately meted out. There is a difference between retribution and revenge.
Delaying, and thereby destroying, the opportunity, if presented, for a true equitable lasting peace for the purpose of satisfying a desire for revenge would be perverse and in opposition to the values of Judaism.
There is no victory if in obtaining victory we become the very thing that we are battling against.
RE: Pray for Peace - Blue Bird - 10-11-2023
(10-11-2023, 03:14 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: When I wrote - "Pray for peace, no matter what is needed to obtain it", I was reflecting on our past and what needed to be done to accomplish peace (at least for a time).
An example would be in the Book of Esther. Not pretty, but necessary.
There are many other biblical instances where G-d worked with us, but we needed to go out and complete the mission.
Thanks for the clarification, searchinmyroots.
RE: Pray for Peace - searchinmyroots - 10-11-2023
(10-11-2023, 04:28 PM)RabbiO Wrote:(10-11-2023, 03:14 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: When I wrote - "Pray for peace, no matter what is needed to obtain it", I was reflecting on our past and what needed to be done to accomplish peace (at least for a time).
An example would be in the Book of Esther. Not pretty, but necessary.
There are many other biblical instances where G-d worked with us, but we needed to go out and complete the mission.
There is the temporary peace of a cease fire, and then there is a lasting true and equitable peace.
There is the so called justice that is nothing more than taking revenge and then there is true justice appropriately meted out. There is a difference between retribution and revenge.
Delaying, and thereby destroying, the opportunity, if presented, for a true equitable lasting peace for the purpose of satisfying a desire for revenge would be perverse and in opposition to the values of Judaism.
There is no victory if in obtaining victory we become the very thing that we are battling against.
That is very true RabbiO.
But then there is the constant threat which has been upon us since the State of Israel was acknowledged. Israel has made what seems to be and hopefully is lasting peace with several neighboring countries, so we see it can be done if both sides are serious with their intentions.
Those that just seek to destroy, annihilate and use barbaric means to come against us, must be dealt with to help prevent future instances. I don't think that would be categorized as revenge.
RE: Pray for Peace - Robert - 10-12-2023
(10-11-2023, 04:28 PM)RabbiO Wrote:(10-11-2023, 03:14 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: When I wrote - "Pray for peace, no matter what is needed to obtain it", I was reflecting on our past and what needed to be done to accomplish peace (at least for a time).
An example would be in the Book of Esther. Not pretty, but necessary.
There are many other biblical instances where G-d worked with us, but we needed to go out and complete the mission.
There is the temporary peace of a cease fire, and then there is a lasting true and equitable peace.
There is the so called justice that is nothing more than taking revenge and then there is true justice appropriately meted out. There is a difference between retribution and revenge.
Delaying, and thereby destroying, the opportunity, if presented, for a true equitable lasting peace for the purpose of satisfying a desire for revenge would be perverse and in opposition to the values of Judaism.
There is no victory if in obtaining victory we become the very thing that we are battling against.
ln my own post I referred to "justice". I was not referring to a criminal matter (such where an accused person goes before a court firstly for judgment and then secondly either for acquittal, or for sentencing if found guilty). The invasion from Gaza by the Hamas "Palestinian" Arabs characterized as it was by Nazi style barbarism, is a matter of war; not a police matter As such the "justice" to which I referred, requires to be dispensed by the IDF (thus not the job of the Israeli police). Some people may call this "revenge" which, being a negative concept, is a term that can be misused (in my view), as an purported-argument for: doing "nothing"; and what would doing nothing bring: Further attacks from the perpetrator worse each time than before. I would respectfully suggest that taking military action against the Hamas terrorists will rather constitute justice, about which we all should unite in support, and essential to deter future "Palestinian" Arab attacks.
Did we really become the "very thing that we are battling against" when our people fought those who sought our destruction in Biblical times? What if that argument had been accepted as reason for not seeking to defeat the Nazis in the Second World War? By the way, the Hamas "Palestinian" Arabs are neo-Nazis as shown by the swastika-defaced kites they used for setting fire to Israeli farmers' fields, in 2018:
“Palestinian protesters carry a transparent kite defaced with a swastika during clashes with Israeli forces across the [Gaza] border today [web page dated April 20, 2018] - [AFP/Getty Images].” [Scroll down the web page to see the relevant image.]:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5638821/Palestinian-women-standing-men-protests-likely-shot-at.html
RE: Pray for Peace - searchinmyroots - 10-17-2023
RE: Pray for Peace - Blue Bird - 10-20-2023
I was just reminded how small Israel is! It deserves and needs all protection and compassion.
Gaza is in front and Ashkelon is right behind (October 7th).
![[Image: Israel-ban-bo-tinh-trang-chien-tranh.jpg]](https://www.vietnam.vn/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Israel-ban-bo-tinh-trang-chien-tranh.jpg)
RE: Pray for Peace - searchinmyroots - 10-20-2023
Yes, about the size of New Jersey here in the States.
RE: Pray for Peace - searchinmyroots - 10-20-2023
Not recent, but still powerful.