(05-26-2025, 11:53 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:

(05-26-2025, 02:04 AM)JudaicChristian Wrote:

(05-26-2025, 12:29 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:

(05-25-2025, 06:53 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote:

(08-30-2020, 02:43 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I just want to confirm the meaning of the Hebrew word "asham" used in this verse.

From what I understand it means guilt and it is also related to the guilt offering, meaning the person is guilty of sin.

In this case, it is the servant.

If that is true, then how could any Christian possibly think Isaiah 53 is about Jesus?

The servant is guilty of sin, and Christian theology teaches Jesus was sinless.

"he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors."

Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until after the year 1525,
when Sir William Tyndale a Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England --- invented it!

You forgot the rest of the verse.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Yahshua was not what the Jews were expecting.

The problem with the truth is it may not fit our fantasies.

You didn't address my last post.

(05-26-2025, 02:16 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Verse 12 is the last verse.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

(05-26-2025, 04:36 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:

(05-26-2025, 02:16 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Verse 12 is the last verse.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

Thanks.

So if this pertains to the messiah as you say, when did this happen - " Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong"

What spoils did the messiah divide with the strong?

(05-26-2025, 07:28 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: That verse can also be translated this way.
[*]Isaiah 53:12 Or many
[*]Isaiah 53:12 Or numerous


Perhaps it is speaking of the gift of life through the New Covenant.

(05-26-2025, 04:36 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:

(05-26-2025, 02:16 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Verse 12 is the last verse.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

Thanks.

So if this pertains to the messiah as you say, when did this happen - " Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong"

What spoils did the messiah divide with the strong?

(06-07-2025, 01:08 AM)ThomasDGW Wrote:

(05-26-2025, 04:36 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote:

(05-26-2025, 02:16 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: Verse 12 is the last verse.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

Thanks.

So if this pertains to the messiah as you say, when did this happen - " Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong"

What spoils did the messiah divide with the strong?

So, based on your understanding of the passage, if this pertains to Israel as you say, when did this happen, and what spoils did Israel divide with the strong?

On the other hand, it seems to me that the passages is saying that dividing the spoils with the strong is to come AFTER this servant poured out his soul unto death. Thus, there is no reason to expect that dividing the spoils has to have already happened. It seems to me that the Messiah will divide the spoils at the seventh trumpet, when he receives the kingdoms of this world, according to Revelation 11:15.

(06-07-2025, 01:08 AM)ThomasDGW Wrote: So, based on your understanding of the passage, if this pertains to Israel as you say, when did this happen, and what spoils did Israel divide with the strong?

On the other hand, it seems to me that the passages is saying that dividing the spoils with the strong is to come AFTER this servant poured out his soul unto death. Thus, there is no reason to expect that dividing the spoils has to have already happened. It seems to me that the Messiah will divide the spoils at the seventh trumpet, when he receives the kingdoms of this world, according to Revelation 11:15.

(06-07-2025, 02:21 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: A suffering Messiah was not what the Jewish people wanted to hear or believe.

Luke 22:67
“If you are the Messiah,” they said, “tell us.” Yahshua answered, “If I tell you, you will not believe me,...

(06-08-2025, 11:27 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:

(06-07-2025, 02:21 PM)JudaicChristian Wrote: A suffering Messiah was not what the Jewish people wanted to hear or believe.

Luke 22:67
“If you are the Messiah,” they said, “tell us.” Yahshua answered, “If I tell you, you will not believe me,...

The Jewish people believe in what the Hebrew bible says what the world will be like when the expected messiah arrives. It has nothing to do with what we want to hear.

Quoting Luke is irrelevant being it is not part of the Hebrew bible.