Judaism vs Christianity

[Blue Bird]

Yes, that's mostly what I meant to say. Also, there can be no fair discussion here, as I would be accused of preaching if I tried. Discussion points are presented as explanations, not debatable ideas.

You once said that you don't like it when Christians think they know better about what the Hebrew Bible says than Jews do. Likewise, I don't like it when a Rabbi who hasn't scratched the surface of what the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus mean — Ephesians 2:7 — presents himself as an expert and judge of the Christian Bible.

[Blue Bird]

My anger has subsided a bit. I'll avoid the subforum, it's not good for me.

Sorry you are angry Blue Bird, that wasn't my intent.

I've watched many Christian videos that, let's just say, weren't too "kind" to Judaism. Yes it hurts sometimes to see what others out there say and believe.

But for me, it helps me understand their mindset a little.

I think its is better to understand where people are at and to try to have an intelligent conversation about. Not that we will end up agreeing with each other, although that would be nice. And I also know many cannot have that type of conversation.

Looking forward to interacting with you on the other sub-forums. 

I know you didn't want to make me angry. There are ugly Christian videos indeed and I don't understand their mindset. I hope your thread continues. I'm sorry I messed it up.

[searchinmyroots]

Yes, that's mostly what I meant to say. Also, there can be no fair discussion here, as I would be accused of preaching if I tried. Discussion points are presented as explanations, not debatable ideas.

You once said that you don't like it when Christians think they know better about what the Hebrew Bible says than Jews do. Likewise, I don't like it when a Rabbi who hasn't scratched the surface of what the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus mean — Ephesians 2:7 — presents himself as an expert and judge of the Christian Bible.

Blue Bird,

To be fair, I not think think they are presenting themselves as experts but they are judging what is written in the Christian bible as it applies to the Hebrew bible.

In my opinion, it's all focused on what is written, nothing further.

[Blue Bird]

All right, a clarification, although I don't think it's necessary.

I didn't get through the whole thing. Rabbi Skobac despises Christians and doesn't hide it. I would not allow Christians to talk about Jews like that. The title could very well be "Recognize who your enemy is".

Blue Bird,

Thank you for clarifying, I really didn't understand.

Sorry you feel that way as I don't see Rabbi Skobac "despising" Christians. I do see him not agreeing with things that are written in the Christian bible and explaining it very openly as he sees it. There are many Christians who go to him to ask questions and he doesn't turn them away, insult or look down upon them.

In contrast, I just watched a video by a very well known and followed Christian preacher who definitely ridiculed the Jews.

I will not post links to Rabbi Skobac's videos if it offends you.

Did you not see the contrast though as to what he was saying about what the Christian bible teaches as opposed to what the Hebrew bible does? The difference in the overall message?

I could ask you more questions about specifics, but I think it best to leave it where it is.

It's possibly not wise to open that box again but I think we are grown people and can stop debating if anybody wants it.

I think it depends on the view someone has on the Hebrew and Christian bible. I've seen ethnic Jews, those who follow Judaism and believing Christians, who have many inner resistances in common. Somehow I understand it, somehow I don't.

My resistances were and are of a different kind, like accepting G‑d as Lord and so on. I see no difference between what the Christian Bible and the Hebrew Bible teach, and no difference at all in the overall message.

If you want to ask more specific questions, I would suggest discussing only one or two questions at a time.

[searchinmyroots]

Blue Bird,

I'm not sure if I want to have this discussion as I don't want to offend you even if it is not my purpose.

Here is a quick one that I'm sure can be debated with no real outcome -

Paul says in Hebrews 9:22 -
"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission"

What does Paul mean by that? I don't need to know about Jesus and how he shed his blood for the remission of sin, I want to know what Paul means because obviously he is referring to the Hebrew bible.

Please try to keep it short and to the point.

I'm not trying to silence your view, just don't want to go off in all different directions.

Thank you Blue Bird.

I look forward to a respectful discussion.

[Blue Bird]

Yes, what you said, that's what Paul means, I think. And I would assume that you also know the parallel text in the Hebrew Bible to which he refers. I don't understand what you need to know and where my limits are.

Very briefly, I took these verses from www.chabad.org:

Blood has the power to atone (Leviticus 17:11)

For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I have therefore given it to you [to be placed] upon the altar, to atone for your souls. For it is the blood that atones for the soul. 

Moses cleansed the altar with blood (Leviticus 8:15)

And he slaughtered [it], and Moses took the blood, and placed it on the horns of the altar, around, with his finger, and he purified the altar. And he poured the blood at the base of the altar, and sanctified it [the altar], to effect atonement upon it.

[searchinmyroots]

Yes, I do know the verse Paul seems to be referring to, just wanted to make sure.

But Hebrews says - "without shedding of blood there is no remission of sin".

Is that a correct blanket statement?

[Blue Bird]

It seems logical to me. All the things you have to take care of if you want to eat meat point in the direction that G‑d doesn't like killing animals, maybe he loves them. If there had been another way for the remission of sins, I would suspect that he would have preferred it for the cleansing of the altar.

What are you thinking of?

[searchinmyroots]

Blue Bird,

I try to get my answers from the Hebrew bible.

I see where many times it says there are other ways besides the shedding of blood.

I'm not sure why Paul would leave those out as I see them (and G-d must as well if He said it) as being just as important.

Paul makes it seems as if there is only 1 way, and according to G-d's word, that isn't true.

[Blue Bird]

Paul must be a bad guy who deliberately misleads people.

What do you think of Leviticus 17:11, it is the blood that atones for the soul. Isn't that an easy to understand and clear statement? it's the blood. Otherwise it would say...among other things, you can also use blood to atone the soul. Those other options you mentioned, like for example to do better next time, might they not be part of the whole atonement as you need flour to bake a bread but you also need water and salt?