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  Happy New Year 2026!
Posted by: BlueBird2 - Yesterday, 11:26 PM - Forum: Hangout - Replies (2)

May this new year bring you all health, blessings, and satisfaction!

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  Fascism and Democracy: Two Different Social Environments
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  Confrontation between the Buddhist and Abrahamic paradigms
Posted by: RoBoR - 12-20-2025, 08:37 PM - Forum: World Religion - Replies (2)

Two fundamental religious paradigms coexist: the Abrahamic and the Buddhist. Each develops and sustains its own mechanisms of genetic–emotional selection, ensuring the development of specialized modes of thought in humans at the genomic level. The organization of these processes is based on genetically fixed segregation in gender selection, which corresponds to the general strategy of the evolution of Mind. Differences in the fundamental emotional configurations (the emotions of Mind) embedded in these paradigms give rise to global conflicts, including world wars.

This article proposes a philosophical and scientific analysis of these paradigms on a supragenetic basis and points to the necessity of developing a meta-ideology grounded in universal emotions of Mind as a universal mechanism for the evolution of Mind on Earth.
Genetic–emotional selection refers to the statistical fixation of emotional configurations within a population through stable mechanisms of social selection, spiritual practices, and gender segregation. These processes operate at a supramolecular emotional level, determining an individual’s capacity to preserve the emotions of Mind.
The confrontation between the Buddhist and Abrahamic systems is a consequence of competition between two models of emotional–genetic selection of Mind.
The ESGTRV model demonstrates that paradigms are not cultural constructs but rather forms of fixation of the emotions of Mind within the genome.
Introductory theoretical foundations
Within the ESGTRV framework, religious systems are regarded as mechanisms for the formation and reinforcement of emotional configurations of Mind. These systems operate supragenetically, influencing the structure of humanity’s emotional field and shaping long-term cognitive specializations. Against this background, the opposition between two global paradigms that have determined the evolution of civilization is of particular significance.
Dichotomy of religious paradigms
This analysis does not aim to evaluate or criticize spiritual traditions. It considers the Abrahamic and Buddhist systems as supra-organismic mechanisms for the selection of emotional structures of Mind, shaping different types of thinking and different trajectories of civilizational evolution.
World history attests to the existence of two stable forms of religious goal-setting. Each is oriented toward the specialization of thought through the consolidation and selection of emotional genomic configurations:

  • the Abrahamic paradigm, represented by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam;
  • the Buddhist paradigm, formed on the basis of Indian philosophy and the Tibetan school.
Both systems seek the development of Mind within human civilization, but they employ different mechanisms of social and emotional segregation, which leads to their civilizational divergence and competition.
The Abrahamic system: centralized selection of Mind
In Abrahamic societies, the selection of emotional and cognitive structures is carried out through state secrecy, religious control, and gender restrictions. These mechanisms ensure the stabilization of psychological specializations:
  • Judaism forms emotional associations linked to knowledge and analysis;
  • Christianity develops emotional–cognitive structures of modeling and systems thinking;
  • Islam strengthens emotional structures of self-realization, discipline, and the pursuit of life’s meaning.
It is important to emphasize that emotional–genetic selection does not imply direct genetic modification, but rather the reinforcement of emotional dispositions through long-term cultural, behavioral, marital, and social practices that function as a filter for the emotions of Mind. These dispositions are statistically concentrated within the population and become a psychogenetic foundation for specialized types of thinking.
In such societies, specialized states are formed in which genetic–emotional selection is carried out through administrative boundaries, spiritual institutions, and patriarchal models of mate choice.
During periods of interstate wars, natural selection occurs among carriers of emotional and spiritual configurations of Mind; at the same time, degenerative distortions of supramolecular genomic connections are eliminated, reducing the individual’s capacity to preserve universal emotions of Mind.
The Buddhist system: a stratified structure of thinking
The Buddhist paradigm is built not on the principle of state closure, but on caste-karmic stratification, in which:
  • each individual occupies a social niche in accordance with their spiritual level and the principle of karma;
  • selection is carried out through social and emotional stratification rather than through state borders;
  • civil wars serve as mechanisms for the redistribution of carriers of different emotional–cognitive structures encoded in the genome.
For example, during the Taiping Rebellion in China (19th century), a redistribution of social roles and spiritual practices occurred, accompanied by a renewal of the population’s emotional and genetic foundations through the mixing of genotypes and the restoration of disrupted supramolecular harmony.
The Buddhist system proves particularly effective under conditions of high population density and large numbers of people, ensuring stability, but it is less universal on the scale of global civilization.
Contradictions and limitations
Differences in approaches to the development of Mind form an ontological contradiction:
  • the Abrahamic system asserts active selection and expansion through the religious state;
  • the Buddhist system prioritizes internal stability and spiritual stratification.
The conflict between the paradigms manifests as a confrontation between their emotional configurations embedded in the genome and culture, making synthesis impossible within the framework of traditional religion.
Modern world wars are an expression of this civilizational split, associated with the incompatibility of the fundamental emotions of Mind and the degradation of humanity’s spiritual structures.
The current crisis and the role of Russia
The internal crisis of the Abrahamic system is intensifying amid geopolitical instability. The Russian Federation currently plays a role in strengthening China’s Buddhist strategy, oriented toward economic and cultural dominance—a form of retribution for long periods of exploitation and humiliation.
Military actions between Abrahamic countries, initiated by Russia, undermine their economic and military potential and weaken their spiritual invulnerability, while China strengthens its capacity by integrating the Buddhist model of stratification with modern social technologies.
The necessity of a new meta-ideology
Overcoming the civilizational deadlock is impossible within the framework of traditional religions. A universal, supra-religious paradigm is required—one capable of synthesizing the spiritual principles of both systems and guiding humanity toward a new stage in the evolution of Mind.
Such a meta-ideology is ESGTRV (Emotional-Supragenetic Theory of the Universe), which integrates biogenetic, emotional, and cognitive mechanisms into a unified model of the development of Mind. It is based on:
  • emotions of Mind as universal tensor configurations of force fields determining goal-setting by matter;
  • the unification of cognitive, implementational, and creative types of thinking into a coherent structure;
  • the formation of an ethical-emotional foundation for renewing the genome of the carrier of Mind;
  • the overcoming of state-religious barriers through universal emotional structures of harmony and beauty.
It should be emphasized that the Abrahamic paradigm, with its universal components of thinking (creativity, cognition, and application), must retain its role within the global system of development. The Buddhist paradigm is valuable as a mechanism of stratification and stability within a unified civilizational system, but like the Abrahamic paradigm, it cannot serve as a universal foundation for all civilizations. Only a philosophy formulated on a scientific basis can serve as a universal paradigm.
Warning: the boundary of the disaster zone
Current processes are not merely wars, but a global mechanism of selection operating at the level of the planet’s Mind. They may lead to the mass loss of carriers of emotional–supramolecular structures of Mind, resulting in a decline in the cognitive and creative potential of civilization and further genomic degradation.
Conclusion
Humanity stands before a choice: to continue along a path of destruction through conflicts between incompatible religious paradigms, or to accept the challenge of evolution and develop a new meta-ideology based on universal emotions of Mind. These emotions, described through tensor calculus and manifested as beauty and harmony, can become the foundation for the harmonization of civilizations and pave the way toward a future rational culture.
Thus, the conflict between the Buddhist and Abrahamic systems is not a clash of cultures, but a competition between two models of emotional–genetic selection of Mind that fix different forms of the Emotion of Mind within the genomes of civilizations. Only a meta-ideology grounded in universal Emotions of Mind is capable of overcoming this fundamental divide.

English version:   https://esgtdu.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_10.html

Сосуществуют две фундаментальные религиозные парадигмы: авраамическая и буддийская. Каждая развивает и поддерживает свои собственные механизмы генетико-эмоционального отбора, обеспечивающие развитие специализированных мыслительных процессов у человека на геномном уровне. Организация этих процессов основана на генетически закреплённой сегрегации в гендерном отборе, что соответствует общей стратегии эволюции Разума. Различие в фундаментальных эмоциональных конфигурациях (эмоциях Разума), закреплённых в этих парадигмах, порождает глобальные конфликты, включая мировые войны. В данной статье предлагается философский и научный анализ этих парадигм на супрагентической основе и указывается на необходимость разработки метаидеологии, основанной на универсальных эмоциях Разума как универсальном механизме эволюции Разума на Земле.
Генетически-эмоциональный отбор относится к статистической фиксации эмоциональных конфигураций в популяции посредством устойчивых механизмов социального выбора, духовных практик и гендерной сегрегации. Эти процессы действуют на надмолекулярном эмоциональном уровне, определяя способность индивида сохранять эмоции разума.
Противостояние между буддийской и авраамической системами является следствием конкуренции между двумя моделями эмоционально-генетического отбора разума.
Модель ESGTRV показывает, что парадигмы — это не культурные конструкции, а скорее формы закрепления эмоций разума в геноме.

Вводные теоретические основы
В рамках ESGTRV религиозные системы рассматриваются как механизмы формирования и укрепления эмоциональных конфигураций разума. Эти системы действуют супрагенетически, влияя на структуру эмоционального поля человечества и формируя долгосрочные когнитивные специализации. На этом фоне особенно значимым является противопоставление двух глобальных парадигм, которые определили эволюцию цивилизации.

Дихотомия религиозных парадигм
Данный анализ не ставит целью оценить или критиковать духовные традиции. Он рассматривает авраамические и буддийские системы как надорганизменные механизмы отбора эмоциональных структур разума, формирующие различные типы мышления и различные траектории эволюции цивилизации.
Мировая история свидетельствует о существовании двух устойчивых форм религиозного целеполагания. Каждая из них направлена на специализацию мышления посредством консолидации и отбора эмоциональных геномных конфигураций:
  • Авраамическая парадигма  , представленная иудаизмом, христианством и исламом;
  • Буддийская парадигма  , сформированная на основе индийской философии и тибетской школы.
Обе системы стремятся к развитию разума в человеческой цивилизации, но используют разные механизмы социальной и эмоциональной сегрегации, что приводит к их цивилизационному расхождению и конкуренции.

Авраамическая система: Централизованный отбор разума
В авраамических обществах отбор эмоциональных и когнитивных структур осуществляется посредством государственной секретности, религиозного контроля и гендерных ограничений. Эти механизмы обеспечивают стабилизацию психологических специализаций:
  • Иудаизм  формирует эмоциональные ассоциации, связанные со знанием и анализом;
  • Христианство  развивает эмоционально-когнитивные структуры моделирования и системного мышления;
  • Ислам  укрепляет эмоциональные структуры самореализации, дисциплины и стремления к смыслу жизни.
Важно подчеркнуть, что эмоционально-генетический отбор не подразумевает прямой генетической модификации, а скорее укрепление эмоциональных установок посредством долгосрочных культурных, поведенческих, брачных и социальных практик, которые действуют как фильтр для эмоций разума. Эти установки статистически концентрируются в популяции и становятся психогенетической основой для специализированных типов мышления.
В таких обществах формируются специализированные государства, где генетико-эмоциональный отбор осуществляется посредством административных границ, духовных институтов и патриархальных моделей выбора супруга.
В периоды межгосударственных войн происходит естественный отбор носителей эмоциональных и духовных конфигураций разума, одновременно устраняются деградационные искажения надмолекулярных связей генома, что снижает способность человека сохранять универсальные эмоции разума.

Буддийская система: стратифицированная структура мышления.
Буддийская парадигма построена не на принципе закрытости государства, а на кастово-кармической стратификации, в которой:
  • Каждый человек вписывается в социальную нишу в соответствии со своим духовным уровнем и принципом кармы;
  • Отбор осуществляется посредством социальной и эмоциональной стратификации, а не через государственные границы;
  • Гражданские войны служат механизмами перераспределения носителей различных эмоционально-когнитивных структур, закодированных в геноме.
Например, во время восстания тайпинов в Китае (XIX век) произошло перераспределение социальных ролей и духовных практик, которое сопровождалось обновлением эмоциональных и генетических основ населения посредством смешения генотипов и восстановления нарушенной надмолекулярной гармонии.
Буддийская система оказывается особенно эффективной в условиях высокой плотности населения и большого количества людей, обеспечивая устойчивость, но она менее универсальна в масштабах мировой цивилизации.

Противоречия и ограничения
Различие в подходах к развитию Разума образует онтологическое противоречие:
  • Авраамическая система утверждает активный отбор и экспансию посредством религиозного государства;
  • Буддийская система отдает предпочтение внутренней стабильности и духовной стратификации.
Конфликт между парадигмами проявляется как противостояние их эмоциональных конфигураций, заложенных в геноме и культуре, что делает синтез невозможным в рамках традиционной религиозной сферы.
Современные мировые войны являются выражением этого цивилизационного раскола, связанного с несовместимостью основных эмоций разума и деградацией духовных структур человечества.

Нынешний кризис и роль России
Внутренний кризис авраамической системы обостряется на фоне геополитической нестабильности. Российская Федерация в настоящее время играет роль в укреплении буддийской стратегии Китая, ориентированной на экономическое и культурное господство — своего рода месть за длительные периоды эксплуатации и унижения.
Военные действия между авраамическими странами, инициированные Россией, подрывают их экономический и военный потенциал и ослабляют их духовную неуязвимость, в то время как Китай укрепляет свой потенциал, интегрируя буддийскую модель стратификации с современными социальными технологиями.

Необходимость новой метаидеологии
Преодоление цивилизационного тупика невозможно в рамках традиционных религий. Необходима универсальная, надрелигиозная парадигма, способная синтезировать духовные принципы обеих систем и направлять человечество к новому этапу в эволюции Разума.
Подобная метаидеология — это  ESGTRV (Эмоционально-супрагенетическая теория Вселенной)  , которая объединяет биогенетические, эмоциональные и когнитивные механизмы в единую модель развития разума. Она основана на:
  • Эмоции разума как универсальные тензорные конфигурации силового поля, определяющие постановку целей материей;
  • объединение когнитивного, имплементационного и творческого типов мышления в целостную структуру;
  • формирование этико-эмоциональной основы для обновления генома носителя Разума;
  • Преодоление государственно-религиозных барьеров посредством универсальных эмоциональных структур гармонии и красоты.
Следует подчеркнуть, что авраамическая парадигма с ее универсальными компонентами мышления (творчество, познание и применение) должна сохранить свою роль в глобальной системе развития. Буддийская парадигма имеет ценность как механизм стратификации и поддержания стабильности в рамках единой цивилизационной системы, но, подобно авраамической парадигме, она не может служить универсальной основой для всех цивилизаций. Только философия, сформулированная на научной основе, может служить универсальной парадигмой.

Предупреждение: Граница зоны бедствия
Нынешние процессы — это не просто войны, а глобальный механизм отбора, действующий на уровне разума планеты. Они могут привести к массовой потере носителей эмоционально-надмолекулярных структур разума, что повлечет за собой снижение когнитивного и творческого потенциала цивилизации и дальнейшую деградацию генома.

Заключение
Человечество стоит перед выбором: продолжать путь разрушения через конфликты между несовместимыми религиозными парадигмами или принять вызов эволюции и разработать новую метаидеологию, основанную на универсальных эмоциях разума. Эти эмоции, описываемые тензорным исчислением и проявляющиеся как красота и гармония, могут стать основой для гармонизации цивилизаций и проложить путь к будущей разумной культуре.
Таким образом, конфликт между буддийской и авраамической системами — это не столкновение культур, а конкуренция между двумя моделями эмоционально-генетического отбора Разума, которые закрепляют различные формы Эмоции Разума в геноме цивилизаций. Только метаидеология, основанная на универсальных Эмоции Разума, способна преодолеть этот фундаментальный раскол.

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  From when did the Anti-Semitism Surge, after the October 7 2023 attack, really occur?
Posted by: Robert - 12-16-2025, 06:27 PM - Forum: Israel - Replies (13)

From when did the Anti-Semitism Surge, after the October 7, 2023 attack, really occur?

Have you noticed that in the Media most pundits now appear to assert that the recent surge in anti-Semitism appeared following Israel's war of defence and deterrence (commenced October 13-27, 2023 - dates from AI Overview). 
Often they imply this by saying typically something such as: 
"Jews should not be blamed for Israel's "actions" in Gaza" !

The recent upsurge in anti-Semitism in fact started with the October 7, 2023 massacre of Israelis by the 
"Palestinian" Arab Hamas-led attack: 

Quote:AI Overview

'The surge in anti-Semitism commenced immediately after the October 7, 2023, attack by Hamas on Israel, with a significant spike in incidents observed globally on that very day and in the days and weeks that followed.

Reports from various organizations worldwide confirm this immediate and dramatic increase: 

> In the United States, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) recorded 89 antisemitic incidents on October 7 and 8 [2023] alone, a 585% increase compared to the same period the previous year. Most of the harassment, vandalism, and assaults for the entire year of 2023 occurred between October 7 and December 31.

> In the United Kingdom, the Metropolitan police reported a 1,350% increase in hate crimes against Jewish people in the period immediately after the conflict began.

> In Australia, the Executive Council of Australian Jewry (ECAJ) documented 221 antisemitic incidents between October 7 and November 8 [2023], with an overall 591% increase in reported incidents in 2023 compared to the previous year.

> In France, the number of antisemitic incidents in the three months following October 7 [2023] rose by 1,000% compared to the year prior. 

The attack served as a catalyst for a global eruption of antisemitism both online and on the ground, with record numbers of incidents reported across many countries by the end of 2023.'

There were six citations/sources quoted, of which I will copy two here:

Antisemitism during the Gaza war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemiti...activists.

Top 5 Global Antisemitic Trends Since October 7: A One-Year Impact Report:
https://www.adl.org/resources/report/top...act-report


Search criteria used (without the quotes):
"when the surge in anti-Semitism commence following the October 7, 2023 attack"

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  Prayers for Australia
Posted by: searchinmyroots - 12-14-2025, 02:53 PM - Forum: Judaism General - Replies (1)

I send my prayers to our fellow Jews and all those affected in Australia.

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  Has EU Commission "Humanitarian" aid to the Palestinians become astronomical?
Posted by: Robert - 12-11-2025, 06:46 PM - Forum: Israel - No Replies

It seems that E.U. Commission "Humanitarian" aid to the "Palestinian" Arabs may have become astronomical !

Quote:AI Overview:

Yes, the European Commission's aid to Palestinians, especially since late 2023, often exceeds annual ESA [European Space Agency] contributions; 
the EU's total support for Palestinians (humanitarian + development) is in the billions (1.6B for 2025-27), 
while ESA's  total  budget is comparable but broken down by  member  contributions, often in the hundreds of millions (e.g., Spain 500M, France/Germany billions over years, not annually), 
making direct annual EU Commission aid vs. total  country  ESA contributions an uneven comparison, but overall EU financial flows to Palestine are massive. 

EU Funding for Palestinians (EU Commission & Member States - "Team Europe"):

> Humanitarian Aid:  The EU is the largest donor, allocating significant funds, with 220 million in emergency aid for 2025 alone, and over 1.58 billion from Team Europe since October 2023 for humanitarian needs.

> Development & Stability:  A major 2025-2027 program for Palestine is up to  1.6 billion, supporting services, recovery, and the Palestinian Authority. 

European Space Agency (ESA) Contributions:

> ESA is funded by its member states (including EU nations) through mandatory and voluntary contributions for specific programs.

> While multi-billion-euro budgets exist for space programs, individual  annual  contributions to ESA from single EU countries (like France or Germany) are substantial (often hundreds of millions to over a billion euros annually for  all space activities), but these fund space programs, not direct humanitarian aid. 


Comparison:

> The  EU Commission's  specific  annual humanitarian aid  (hundreds of millions) can rival or exceed what some  individual  EU states might contribute to ESA in a single year, but the total "Team Europe" support package for Palestine (humanitarian + development) is in the billions over a few years.

It's an apples-to-oranges comparison  of EU institutional funding vs. member state contributions to a separate agency, but both are significant financial commitments, with EU support to Palestine being a massive, ongoing funding stream. 


The AI Overview says: 'It's an apples-to-oranges comparison of EU institutional funding vs. member state contributions to a separate agency'. 
I beg to differ, because the value of each Euro to the beneficiary concerned on the international money markets (whether spent by the E.U. Commission or by individual E.U. countries), is the same.


Eight sources were cited by the AI Overview, but I will put just three of them here:

EU humanitarian financial assistance to Palestinians:
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/polic...8 billion.

How the EU funds the Palestinian Authority:
[Fatah (aka "palestinian authority, the") sends part its income to Hamas in Gaza.]
https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/new...und allow.

EUROPEAN COOPERATIVE ORGANIZATION AND GOVERNMENT SPACE BUDGETS
European Space Agency Budget
2011 – European Space Agency Budget – Snapshot:
https://www.thespacereport.org/page/2/?t...d parties.

Search engine criteria used:
Is more European Union Commission humanitarian aid given each year to the Palestinians compared with total annual E.U. countries contributions to the European Space Agency”.


The E.U. Commission (of which Ursula von der Leyen is President), triples "Humanitarian" aid to Gaza, the day after Ursula von der Leyen visits one of the attacked Kibbuzim:

October 7, 2023:
During the Hamas-led "Palestinian" Arab massacre of Israelis of October 7, 2023, over a dozen Kibbuzim were attacked: 
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/remembe...capitated.

Quote:'[...] around 250 Hamas and other Palestinian militants attacked Kfar Aza, an Israeli kibbutz (cooperative community)
about 3 kilometers (1.9 mi) from the border with the Gaza Strip, massacring residents and abducting hostages. [...]
62 residents [...]  killed, [...] 19 were taken hostage. [...]

shooting civilians taking shelter in safe rooms,
sexually assaulting hostages,[...]
dismembered or beheaded victims using implements including garden hoes,
while others were shot inside their homes or burned alive. [...]'

(Please see webpage for citations (the citation numbers are not included above).)

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Aza_massacre


October 13, 2023:
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen visits the Kfar Aza kibbutz:

https://www.politico.eu/article/von-der-...lict-bias/

October 14, 2023:
[Heading:] “EU triples immediate humanitarian aid for Gaza”: 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...023-10-14/

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  chatGPT for interpreting scripture
Posted by: gib65 - 11-28-2025, 04:27 AM - Forum: Judaism General - Replies (10)

Hello everyone,

Lately I've been using chatGPT to interpret certain passages in scripture. So far, it's been a useful guide. But it's hard to verify if the feedback it gives me matches what scholars and rabbis would respond with.

For example, I had this conversation with chatGPT on Exodus 19:

https://chatgpt.com/share/6929238f-6b3c-...16a1ad1642

(unfortunately, I used the same chat to ask some tech questions about some software I'm dealing with; once it starts to sound techy, you know it's a different conversation Big Grin).

What does everyone think? Is chatGPT a good source for interpreting scripture?

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  Exodus 19
Posted by: gib65 - 11-22-2025, 07:07 AM - Forum: Judaism General - No Replies

Welcome to the next installment of my journey into Exodus where I explore each chapter, one by one, and post my thoughts and ask questions in a deep dive analysis from the perspective of a non-Jewish, non-Christian, non-anything-really individual (though I do believe in God and have my own spiritual path). Today, we cover Exodus 19, the arrival at Mt. Sinai and the establishment of boundaries by God for the Israelites to observe. My sources, as usual, are as follows:

* primary: chabad.org

* secondary: biblegateway.com

* And introducing: chatgpt.com

Exodus 19:1-2 Wrote:1 In the third month of the children of Israel's departure from Egypt, on this day they arrived in the desert of Sinai. 2 They journeyed from Rephidim, and they arrived in the desert of Sinai, and they encamped in the desert, and Israel encamped there opposite the mountain.

Here again we have a bit of confusion over the exact whereabouts and the details of the Israelites' chronicles (at least, confusing to me, just a little). You might recall from my analysis of Exodus 18 (if you read it--my analysis that is, not Exodus 18) that I noted this:

gib65 Wrote:
Exodus 18:5 Wrote:Now Moses' father in law, Jethro, and his [Moses'] sons and his wife came to Moses, to the desert where he was encamped, to the mountain of God.

Are we already at the mountain of God? At Mt. Sinai? Chapter 17 open with:
Exodus 17:1 Wrote:The entire community of the children of Israel journeyed from the desert of Sin to their travels by the mandate of the Lord. They encamped in Rephidim, and there was no water for the people to drink.

And verse 7 has Moses naming the place Massah and Meribah:
Exodus 17:7 Wrote:He named the place Massah [testing] and Meribah [quarreling] because of the quarrel of the children of Israel and because of their testing the Lord, saying, Is the Lord in our midst or not?

It goes on to describe the battle with the Amalekites followed by Moses inscribing the event in a memorial and building an alter... all presumably at the same place. So did they travel since then or was this at the base of Mt. Sinai?

So Exodus 17 has the Israelites arriving at Rephidim, Exodus 18 describing the place as at "the mountain of God" (presumably not having moved from Rephidim), and now Exodus 19 has them leaving Rephidim to arrive at the desert of Sinai and camping opposite the mountain. So how to interpret this? Is it saying that Rephidim was close to the mountain of God (Mt. Sinai, I presume) but upon leaving Rephidim they got even closer?*

Exodus 19:9 Wrote:And the Lord said to Moses, "Behold, I am coming to you in the thickness of the cloud, in order that the people hear when I speak to you, and they will also believe in you forever." And Moses relayed the words of the people to the Lord.

Now, this is an interesting passage because it sort of contradicts my interpretation of Exodus 16:9-12 (which itself is more of an interpretation of Robert's interpretation):

gib65 Wrote:If I take these passages from biblegateway.com, they say this:
Exodus 16:9-12 Wrote:9 Then Moses told Aaron, “Say to the entire Israelite community, ‘Come before the Lord, for he has heard your grumbling.’” 10 While Aaron was speaking to the whole Israelite community, they looked toward the desert, and there was the glory of the Lord appearing in the cloud. 11 The Lord said to Moses, 12 “I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.’”

This puts a slightly different spin on it. This suggests that God's appearance in the cloud was not what He intended for the Israelites to "come before the Lord" for (as instructed by Aaron), but just happened to occur while Aaron was speaking to the crowd, which (understandably) caught their attention as they turned to the desert to look. And if [you, Robert, are] right that the Lord only spoke to Moses (i.e. the people didn't hear the Lord), then it makes sense that Moses would convey the message afterward, and that would be the purpose of gathering the people to hear God's response to their complaints.

Here in Exodus 19:9, however, it says that the Lord will come to Moses in the thickness of the cloud in order that the people hear when He speaks to Moses. So according to Exodus 19:9, the people can hear the Lord when he takes the form of a cloud and speaks to Moses. But maybe it's not a matter of whether the people can hear the Lord when he speaks to Moses as a cloud, but whether they do hear Him under this or that circumstance. So in Exodus 16:9-12 the people so happened not to hear the Lord but in Exodus 19:9, they did.*

Exodus 19:12-13 Wrote:12 And you shall set boundaries for the people around, saying, Beware of ascending the mountain or touching its edge; whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.' 13 No hand shall touch it, for he shall be stoned or cast down; whether man or beast, he shall not live. When the ram's horn sounds a long, drawn out blast, they may ascend the mountain."

Now this is interesting. The Lord seems to be establishing that this is no ordinary mountain, that it is sacred, and therefore requires boundaries that the people must respect. What exactly the reasons for these boundaries is unclear, and quite intriguing, in the sense that it's not clear what exactly will happened if the Israelites violate these boundaries. Not so much to themselves, which this verse makes very clear, but how such boundary violations will impact the sacredness/divinity of the mountain (Will it cause evil to enter the world? Will it throw a wrench into God's plan? Will it damage the souls of those who violate the boundaries?). Or is it purely symbolic? Or maybe just a test of their loyalty? I've always been interested in questions like this, questions about how the sacred and supernatural ties into cause and effect, whether it can be explained in the same way as scientific phenomena. How exactly do violations of the boundaries God lays out here have a causal effect in the context of the sacred, divine, and supernatural. And why? In any case, the warnings are clear. So clear that I don't know if I would be willing to touch the mountain even if the ram's horn did sound.

Exodus 19:15 Wrote:He said to the people, "Be ready for three days; do not go near a woman."

Was Moses specifically addressing the men? Was it not typical for women to approach men at this time? This passage is a sign of the times, I guess.

Exodus 19:21-22 Wrote:The Lord said to Moses, "Go down, warn the people lest they break [their formation to go nearer] to the Lord, to see, and many of them will fall. 22 And also, the priests who go near to the Lord shall prepare themselves, lest the Lord wreak destruction upon them."

So what does a priest need to do to "prepare" himself? And for what? This passage tells us: to "go near to the Lord". So to cross the boundary the Lord set for the people? And how close to the Lord? I can see that it is reasonable to grant special privileges to the priestly cast, to allow them, because of their special status of being closer to the Lord in spirit, to come closer to the Lord physically.

More generally, Exodus 19:20-25 seems a little redundant. What I mean is that the Lord already issued the warning that whoever crosses the bounary "shall surely be put to death", but He nonetheless summons Moses to climb the mountain to meet Him, only for the Lord to tell Moses to go back down and "warn the people lest they break [their formation to go nearer] to the Lord". It's like if my boss tells me to warn my team at the office not to violate the rules, and then calls me into his office just to tell me to go back out and warn my team not to violate the rules. One might assume that what the Lord is doing is directing Moses' attention to the fact that many of the people will not obey the rules as "many of them will fall". But Exodus 19:24 says:

Exodus 19:24 Wrote:But the Lord said to him, "Go, descend, and [then] you shall ascend, and Aaron with you, but the priests and the populace shall not break [their formation] to ascend to the Lord, lest He wreak destruction upon them."

Here the Lord seems to be saying the populace will not violate the boundaries (in opposition to Exodus 19:21 which says "...and many of them will fall"). Perhaps the phrase "lest He wreak desctrution upon them" is meant to be interpreted as "there is still a condition under which the people might violate the boundaries, and that is if the Lord wreaks desctruction upon them in consequence".

So at best, the Lord in Exodus 19:24 is uncertain whether the people will violate His rules. But in Exodus 19:21, He seems pretty sure that Moses will see that "many of them will fall." Exodus 19:24 is, of course, the Lord's response to Moses pointing out, in Exodus 19:23, that "The people cannot ascend to Mount Sinai, for You warned us saying, Set boundaries for the mountain and sanctify it." So it's almost like the Lord is trying to have it both ways--say that the people will violate His rules and wanting Moses to see it for himself, and at the same time reassuring Moses that they won't violate His rules so that Moses' understanding is not confused.

So as usual, I consulted biblegateway.com to get a slightly different rendition of these passages, and here's what it had to say:

biblegateway.com Wrote:20 The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up 21 and the Lord said to him, “Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish. 22 Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.”

23 Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, ‘Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.’”

24 The Lord replied, “Go down and bring Aaron up with you. But the priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to the Lord, or he will break out against them.”

This wording does not suggest that the people will or won't violate the rules, but simply reiterates the Lord's warning that there will be consequences for violating the rules and instructs Moses to emphasize this to the people. But this makes the Lord's instructions to Moses to come up the mountain even more redundant. He's simply instructing Moses to go back down an repeat the same warning. Of course, there's the additional instructions to address the priestly cast about consecrating themselves before approaching the Lord. And also the follow up of bringing Aaron up the mountain with him the next time he ascends to see the Lord. But why all this couldn't be instructed to Moses the first time around seems odd to me.

Finally, what is a "shofar"? Is that the ram's horn God spoke of earlier, that which when blown signals to the people that they are allowed to cross the boundary?


* I got some answers to these questions from ChatGPT. I will post them later. Right now, I just want to journal my thoughts and reactions to what I'm reading in Exodus 19. But the fact that I'm now relying on ChatGPT to help me interpret Exodus is an interesting topic in itself, and I'll probably open it for discussion soon after I post this.

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  Dilema with "evil art"; to beautify or to not beautufy the world?
Posted by: DDutkiewicz - 11-10-2025, 12:21 AM - Forum: World Religion - Replies (3)

I'm confused about something I can't find the answer to online maybe you can help me?

Is it a Mitzvah to tear down statues of demons if on public property?


Some local "artist" erected 20 statues made from driftwood and metal that looked like evil demons with horns, nose rings, and one even had a throne and orbs. They sat all in a row on a public foot path with a sign that read, "Monster Valley Beware"; it's where I jog all the time; why did it bother me if I'm not superstitious?  On Oct 31 it took 4 hours "nullifying" the path to remove and haul them to the dump. I feel like there is less darkness in my neighbourhood now but I don't understand how I felt this way... 


The police called to let me know about the investigation being open and I may be charged with criminal mischief if the statues were on the owners property; however, they were just outside of the boundary by 5 feet, thank Hashem!

Today I ran past and now there is a new statue; what do I do? I've been told it's not up to me to judge weather the object is evil and demonic and that I should just ignore it.  I'm finding it difficult to let it go but think I should; how can I have peace living side by side with pegan "art" everywhere? I don't want to sell and leave my home; I've asked Hashem which has lead me here; I am asking for advice from a Tzadik; please help!

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  monism pantheism; “Jehovah himself fills the heavens and the earth.”
Posted by: HumbleBeauty - 10-23-2025, 04:32 AM - Forum: World Religion - Replies (3)

I wonder if there are anymore Einstein's out there, looking for a new Spinoza.



https://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Proofs_of_God


I was wondering if you could help me review this work.

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