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The Incompatibility of Judaism & Zionism
#1
I thought this short video to be quite helpful to my understanding of Judaism and how it is not the same as Zionism.  It is only 4 minutes long, yet Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro explains that Zionism was created to replace Judaism.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5T_Qu12ACs

Coming from a Christian background I can appreciate the spiritual lessons taught from Judaism including the use of the Hebrew language and comparing texts that have helped me to re-examine much of what I had been taught.
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#2
Thanks for sharing Dana and always good to see you here on the forum.

As I've said many times prior, just because one is Jewish, it doesn't mean they specifically follow Judaism.

If we are not following G-d's instructions as given to us in the Hebrew bible, then, as I see it, we are not following Judaism.

Of course it's not just black and white and there are many, many grey areas.

But hopefully, despite the differences, we can all come together as one.

If I'm not mistaken, there were many differences and customs within the 12 tribes and when they needed to, they came together.

Didn't always work out perfectly, but one day all will be one.

My humble 2 cents!

Thanks again!
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#3
(11-27-2023, 01:06 AM)Dana Wrote: I thought this short video to be quite helpful to my understanding of Judaism and how it is not the same as Zionism.  It is only 4 minutes long, yet Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro explains that Zionism was created to replace Judaism.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5T_Qu12ACs

Coming from a Christian background I can appreciate the spiritual lessons taught from Judaism including the use of the Hebrew language and comparing texts that have helped me to re-examine much of what I had been taught.

the particular view your video explores explains why a small sect of Jews believe that modern POLITICAL Zionism is not identical to Judaism. Any of them would admit that Zionism on its own is part of Judaism (and part of our daily prayers). Their complaint is that Israel isn't enough of a theocracy and shouldn't be giving rights to anyone but Jews. I can't get behind that, and most Jews can't either.
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#4
Thank you Rosends for confirming the difference, Zionism and Political Zionism.

Big difference.
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#5
Thank you Searchinmyroots and Rosends for both of your comments.  The difference between political Zionism and Zionism was not something I was aware of and I appreciate your sharing your thoughts on this. 

Also, I agree, I would not want to see a theocracy either.
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#6
Zionism forms part of the Jewish religion, since the land of Israel and the Jewish religion cannot be separated; “Judaism” is both an ethnicity and a religion. Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro's opinion constitutes a minority view. 
The land of Israel is the ancestral-homeland of the Jewish people, in which the Jews have unbroken presence since Biblical times: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi...e_(region)

Video interview (3min, 18 secs) with Rabbi Yehudah Leib Posner recalling the view of the Lubavitch Rebbe (Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson - Lubavitch leader) on the [re]establishment of Jewish government in the land of Israel:
In the 1940's Rabbi Yehudah Leib Posner and his brother Zalman were students at "770" (770 Eastern Parkway - Chabad-Lubavitch World Headquarters.) Their father came in and asked the Rebbe a question ...
https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingto...ionism.htm

“Zionism” is simply Jewish nationalism, and if it were to be considered “wrong”, then the nationalism of other nations would also have to be wrong, for example Arab nationalism.

Modern Zionism is the desire to protect the re-establishment of Israel within its historic homeland, with Zion - Jerusalem, as its capital, while respecting its neighbours. What is now "East" Jerusalem (aka the “Old City”), was the capital of all the previous Jewish kingdoms of Judah and (united) kingdom of Israel. Modern Israel is Re-established within the Jewish ancestral-homeland - See for example the Jewish post-Biblical Hasmonean Kingdom.  It included the: “West Bank”, Gaza, and Golan Heights. Capital (what is now “EAST”) Jerusalem / “Old City”; between 110 BCE / 754 BH and 63 BCE / 706 BH - Map: 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...ingdom.jpg


Quote:‘Zion (Hebrew: צִיּוֹן Tsiyyon), [...] often used as a synonym for Jerusalem.[2][3] The word is first found in [the “Old Testament” Bible] 2 Samuel 5:7 which dates from c.630–540 [BCE] according to modern scholarship.

It commonly referred to a specific mountain near Jerusalem (Mount Zion), on which stood a Jebusite fortress of the same name that was conquered by [King] David and was named the City of David. The term Tzion [Zion] came to designate the area of Jerusalem where the [Jebusite] fortress stood, and later became a metonym for [King] Solomon’s Temple, [and] the city of Jerusalem [...]’.

Footnotes:
2. Longman, Tremper; Enns, Peter (2008). Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry & Writings: A Compendium of Contemporary Biblical Scholarship. InterVarsity Press. p. 936. ISBN 978-0-8308-1783-2.
3. Anderson, Arnold Albert (1981). The book of Psalms. Eerdmans. ISBN 978-0-551-00846-5.

Extract source: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zion


Zionism can be traced to the first Exiles of Jewish people (“Jew”=citizen of “Judah” - Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion) caused by foreign invasion and occupation, as shown from the extract from Psalm 137 below.
Yet the Jewish people have also had an unbroken presence in their ancestral-homeland of Israel despite exiles of many of its people; an unbroken presence dating from Biblical times (first source above): 
Quote:Psalm 137, verses 1 to 6:

‘1. By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat, we also wept when we remembered Zion.
2. On willows in its midst we hung our harps.
3. For there our captors asked us for words of song and our tormentors [asked of us] mirth, “Sing for us of the song of Zion.”
4. “How shall we sing the song of the Lord on foreign soil?”
5. If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget [its skill].
6. May my tongue cling to my palate, if I do not remember you, if I do not bring up Jerusalem at the beginning of my joy. [...]’.

Translation extract source: 
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/...er-137.htm
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