02-21-2021, 06:17 PM
SMR,
That's just right! Great call-up of the various sources. It's really the case that the NT doesn't have much in the way of originality.
Richard Carrier has this interesting bit to add from his On the Historicity of Jesus (chapter 10):
The documents found there show that they were literally copying statements of Eugnostos and writing them in another document and making them into Jesus statements. It seems to be one of the modi operandi that those who composed the Gospels used. They took popular statements and placed them in the mouth of Jesus. These statements were not original to him, though.
That's just right! Great call-up of the various sources. It's really the case that the NT doesn't have much in the way of originality.
Richard Carrier has this interesting bit to add from his On the Historicity of Jesus (chapter 10):
Among the texts recovered from the fourth-century stash of codices recovered from Nag Hammadi, Egypt, are two in particular: Eugnostos the Blessed and the Wisdom of Jesus Christ. The peculiar thing about these two texts is that they pull away the curtain and reveal a key pathway by which Jesus tradition was invented.
Eugnostos is a fake epistle written by what is almost certainly a fake person (‘Eugnostos’ means ‘well knowing’, an obviously fictional name), possibly composed before Christianity, as it contains no material distinctive of Christianity, but appears to outline an esoteric doctrine of Jewish theology concerning the firstborn celestial Son of God, called the Savior and Son of Man (see Elements 39 to 41). The Wisdom of Jesus Christ then takes direct quotations from the epistle and puts them on the lips of Jesus, and expands on them, to fabricate a post-resurrection narrative scene with dialogue between Jesus and his disciples. So here we see whole sayings of Jesus being invented by fabricating a historical conversation (a Gospel-style narrative), borrowing things said by Eugnostos and representing them as things said by Jesus in conversation with his disciples. This could be how much of the canonical Gospels were composed: things said by other people, in other texts, being ‘lifted’ and adapted and placed on the lips of Jesus. Certainly these two texts prove this was being done. And we have no a priori reason to believe this isn’t how it was always done.
Eugnostos is a fake epistle written by what is almost certainly a fake person (‘Eugnostos’ means ‘well knowing’, an obviously fictional name), possibly composed before Christianity, as it contains no material distinctive of Christianity, but appears to outline an esoteric doctrine of Jewish theology concerning the firstborn celestial Son of God, called the Savior and Son of Man (see Elements 39 to 41). The Wisdom of Jesus Christ then takes direct quotations from the epistle and puts them on the lips of Jesus, and expands on them, to fabricate a post-resurrection narrative scene with dialogue between Jesus and his disciples. So here we see whole sayings of Jesus being invented by fabricating a historical conversation (a Gospel-style narrative), borrowing things said by Eugnostos and representing them as things said by Jesus in conversation with his disciples. This could be how much of the canonical Gospels were composed: things said by other people, in other texts, being ‘lifted’ and adapted and placed on the lips of Jesus. Certainly these two texts prove this was being done. And we have no a priori reason to believe this isn’t how it was always done.
The documents found there show that they were literally copying statements of Eugnostos and writing them in another document and making them into Jesus statements. It seems to be one of the modi operandi that those who composed the Gospels used. They took popular statements and placed them in the mouth of Jesus. These statements were not original to him, though.