11-18-2023, 05:10 AM
Sorry everyone, I've been a bit absent from the forum lately--life getting too busy--but I do want to continue this thread, so I want to at least give a short response and let you know I haven't forgot this thread.
Ah, yes:
So the circumcision is a sign of one's entering into the covenant with God, one etched in the flesh and cannot be undone. That's very interesting. Any source that explains why circumcision specifically is the most apt sign of this?
It's also interesting because it not only implies that circumcision was already a well established practice at the time, but if true, it means that Moses is not the original author of Genesis--or at least, the stories therein have an origin earlier than Moses. Is there any knowledge amongst Jewish scholars about what the original manuscripts were that Moses eventually put together in what we today call "Genesis"? And how much of it is literally stitched together from document fragments that Moses happen to come into possession of, and how much is Moses simply relaying, in his own words, the stories from memory?
For example, it seems as if the story of Noah and the Ark stems from the Mesopotamian legend of Gilgamesh and the Flood. <-- That's one source. What about the Tower of Bable? The story of Adam and Eve?
From Exodus onwards, it seems like Moses is just relaying his living experiences.
I also read these two passages:
I guess these give us a little insight into the language of the time. At the site you linked me to, there are footnotes (linknotes?) on the words "Abram" and "Abraham". The links explain the meaning of the names: "Abram" means "exalted father" and "Abraham" means (probably) "father of many". Are we looking at singular vs. plural? Abram meaning father to a single child (or an unspecified number of children), and an exalted one at that, while Abraham is for a plurality of children? What would his name be if he was father to a single children (or an unspecified number) and wasn't exalted? And then there seems to be a parallel with Sarai/Sarah. Does "Sarai" mean mother to a single (or unspecified number) of children? And exalted? And does "Sarah" mean mother to a plurality of children? It's funny that the article doesn't link to any notes about the meaning of Sarai/Sarah, but it seems obvious that it's meant to parallel Abram's/Abraham's name change.
Thanks for the links, COmentator! This is great material. Unfortunately, it will have to wait til the morning as they seem like pretty long reads and I'm tired right now.
But I'll read them for sure this weekend and get back to you.
Have a good weekend, everyone!
COmentator Wrote:Let's start with the fact that circumcision is commanded back in Genesis 17.
Ah, yes:
Genesis 17:9-10 Wrote:10 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.
So the circumcision is a sign of one's entering into the covenant with God, one etched in the flesh and cannot be undone. That's very interesting. Any source that explains why circumcision specifically is the most apt sign of this?
It's also interesting because it not only implies that circumcision was already a well established practice at the time, but if true, it means that Moses is not the original author of Genesis--or at least, the stories therein have an origin earlier than Moses. Is there any knowledge amongst Jewish scholars about what the original manuscripts were that Moses eventually put together in what we today call "Genesis"? And how much of it is literally stitched together from document fragments that Moses happen to come into possession of, and how much is Moses simply relaying, in his own words, the stories from memory?
For example, it seems as if the story of Noah and the Ark stems from the Mesopotamian legend of Gilgamesh and the Flood. <-- That's one source. What about the Tower of Bable? The story of Adam and Eve?
From Exodus onwards, it seems like Moses is just relaying his living experiences.
I also read these two passages:
Genesis 17:5 Wrote:No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.
Genesis 17:15 Wrote:As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah.
I guess these give us a little insight into the language of the time. At the site you linked me to, there are footnotes (linknotes?) on the words "Abram" and "Abraham". The links explain the meaning of the names: "Abram" means "exalted father" and "Abraham" means (probably) "father of many". Are we looking at singular vs. plural? Abram meaning father to a single child (or an unspecified number of children), and an exalted one at that, while Abraham is for a plurality of children? What would his name be if he was father to a single children (or an unspecified number) and wasn't exalted? And then there seems to be a parallel with Sarai/Sarah. Does "Sarai" mean mother to a single (or unspecified number) of children? And exalted? And does "Sarah" mean mother to a plurality of children? It's funny that the article doesn't link to any notes about the meaning of Sarai/Sarah, but it seems obvious that it's meant to parallel Abram's/Abraham's name change.
COmentator Wrote:Hope the following is helpful
Chabad
https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_c...-Moses.htm
also
https://www.thetorah.com/article/a-murde...nt,24%2D26).
Thanks for the links, COmentator! This is great material. Unfortunately, it will have to wait til the morning as they seem like pretty long reads and I'm tired right now.
But I'll read them for sure this weekend and get back to you.Have a good weekend, everyone!