Questions on Exodus Ch. 5 -- Moses and Aaron meet Pharahh

[gib65]

gib65 -

As to COmentator - Let me say simply that even a stopped clock is completely accurate twice a day.

Ah, LOL, so I take it he offers overly-generalized links on the off chance that *maybe* one of them might be relevant--and sometimes it is!

As to Jacob being given a new name, calling it a christening seems highly inappropriate, what does the Torah say about whynthe name was given?

"Inappropriate" as in not quite accurate/fitting, or "inappropriate" as in offensive/rude? If the latter, you have my sincere apologies (though I would still like to ask why, if you don't mind).

As for your question about what the Torah says, I found this from the source above (https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8230):

9. And God appeared again to Jacob when he came from Padan aram, and He blessed him.
10. God said to him, "Your name is Jacob. Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel shall be your name." And He named him Israel. 11. And God said to him, "I am the Almighty God; be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a multitude of nations shall come into existence from you, and kings shall come forth from your loins. 12. And the land that I gave to Abraham and to Isaac, I will give to you and to your seed after you will I give the land."

So it seems the Torah says that God "named" him Israel, not "christened". I take it this is an important distinction if you're pointing it out. And I guess it hinges on what you meant by "inappropriate" so I'll await your response before speculating.

As to why Joseph is not listed among the patriarchs, let me ask you if you noticed one key difference between Joseph and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Between Joseph and Abraham? I'm afraid not. Between Isaac and Jacob? I'm afraid not again. You see, I'm not well versed in Genesis at all. Nor Exodus for that matter (hence my posts). Nor the Torah in general. Nor the Bible in general. The fact of the matter is, I'm not particularly religious. I have my own spiritual/philosophical beliefs, but when it comes to Judaism in particular, or any of the books in the Torah, I'm woefully uneducated.

I do however understand this (or if I don't, I'm sure you'll correct me): Abraham begat Isaac, who begat Jacob, who begat Joseph. So the only difference I know of between Joseph and Abraham is that Abraham is 3 generations Joseph's elder. And the only difference between Isaac and Jacob is that Isaac is 1 generation Jacob's elder. But if my response to Glenn2020 is at all right, then there is this significant difference between Jacob and the others: Abraham and Isaac both came before Jacob, and therefore are before Israel. Jacob is Israel. And Joseph came after Israel. It would make sense then that Joseph doesn't count as a patriarch because the patriarchs are the fathers who culminated in Israel (Jacob being Israel). Have I got that right?

The "patriarchs" are accounted as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the matriarchs are Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah. The text tells stories about these people and others.

Ah, yes, I found where these matriarchs are mentioned in Genesis. I remember the story of Rachel from a childrens' Bible I read when I was a kid so at least that rings a bell.

Do you agree with my response to Glenn2020 about why Joseph is not included among the patriarchs?