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Who buried with whom? Isaiah 53:9
#32
(04-01-2024, 12:08 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: Thomas,

You are correct, referring to something not being there isn't a very good argument so I retract those.

But the rest still stand.

I said -

"The servant is referred to in the plural several times"


Your reply -

Not in Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12"



That reply in itself is enough for me to end my part of this discussion.



Thank you for your thoughts and opinions.

I appreciate your willingness to retract some arguments.

I think that the counter-missionaries should state more clearly that they will not accept the change of identity of the servant of God in any place in Isaiah, so that there can be only one servant of God spoken of in Isaiah: the nation of Israel.  They should also state why they believe that, then clarify that it doesn't really matter to them what a particular passage says that the servant of God will do or did, he is always the nation of Israel. Thus, the only task for these scholars is to develop explanations of how the nation of Israel did or will do those things.

If they would state this, there would be no need for all of the discussion, in which the counter-missionaries pretend that the identity of the servant in the section 52:13-53:12 is partly based on the things the servant is said to do, like being buried with the wicked, bearing sin, being wounded to heal transgressors, etc. But, they want to pretend that this is true so they can lead defenders of Christianity and the NT into arguments of "Did Jesus really do these things?" Having convinced some that he did not really do one or more of those things, then they can press them to reject Jesus as a candidate. Then they can steer those Jews back into the fold of rabbinical Judaism, and they hope that the deconverted won't notice that the nation of Israel really doesn't do those things, either, according to the standard that they insisted on for Jesus.

Ironically, what the counter-missionaries pretend that matters to them, as they seek to draw away followers from Jesus, really does matter. The servant of God really needs to do or have done all the things that they say are stated in Isaiah 53. The nation of Israel cannot do them. On judgment day, we will find that only one man will have done them. And the counter-missionaries are going to be in big trouble with God, because they insisted that people apply meanings of Isaiah's prophecy that they do not themselves believe. That is called "bearing false witness against your neighbor."

Christians often correctly quote the NT to say that if you don't come to the Father through Jesus, you will be lost, but the error is to understand that to mean that a Jew who faithfully observes the Torah and the prophets will still be lost if he simply fails to believe in Jesus. This is not quite true. You will be lost because you did not follow Psalm 119:42 "And I shall answer a word to those who disgrace me, for I trusted in Your word." Instead you counter-missionaries have done what Hananiah did, as Jeremiah 28:15 records: "you assured this people with a lie." I can see clearly that the reason that most Jews do not believe in Jesus is that they do not trust their own prophets.
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Messages In This Thread
Who buried with whom? Isaiah 53:9 - by ThomasDGW - 02-29-2024, 09:35 PM
RE: Who buried with whom? Isaiah 53:9 - by Dana - 03-30-2024, 01:15 AM
RE: Who buried with whom? Isaiah 53:9 - by Dana - 03-31-2024, 04:06 PM
RE: Who buried with whom? Isaiah 53:9 - by ThomasDGW - 04-01-2024, 09:58 PM

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