04-07-2024, 03:48 PM
You said -
"First we have to distinguish:
There are all kinds of Jews, some who don't believe in god, few who believe that Jesus was the Messiah and others who believe in the god JHWH of the "old testament" (what you call the "Hebrew bible"!?)
And about those last group of Jews (probably the majority) I think they don't want to hear these passages where it is written that the Messiah will have to suffer"
Agreed, there are all types of Jews, some more observant than others and some not observant at all.
It's not "what you call the "Hebrew Bible", it is the Hebrew Bible! Don't forget we have the original, way before the Christian bible.
What do you mean "don't want to hear passages that the Messiah will have to suffer". We read everything and question everything. Yes, there are certain thoughts in Judaism that the Messiah will suffer.
You said -
"It fits just so perfectly to Jesus, that it is overwhelming prophecy.
He is the promised Messiah, voluntary sacrifice to burden our sins to become redeemer for all mankind and conquerer of death, got resurrected by god and is alive. I believe that."
Yes, from a Christian perspective it fits really well. Especially if the meanings of the words are changed to fit that perspective.
I understand what you believe, it just has nothing to do with what the Hebrew Bible teaches.
You said -
"You are right, a temple is not needed, but after the old bond of Moses there is sacrifice needed, blood. Or not?
No, blood is not needed. How were the Israelite's forgiven for their sins in the 70 years between the 1st and 2nd Temple?
What doe II Chronicles 7:14 say and many other passages in the Hebrew bible?
You said -
"The bible I am reading and every bible so far I have seen is written with all its 66 books completely by Jews or Israelites. Maybe I miss 1 or 2 non Israeli autors, then please correct me.
But almost everything about the one true god is passed down by Jews, even all the books, letters and scriptures between 0-100 AD about Jesus and the Apostles. It is just that Jews and many others don't want to believe them."
You missed the point of my question, let me rephrase it - According to the Hebrew Bible, what will the world look like in the messianic age when the Messiah comes?
You said -
"I don't understand what you mean by that.... what should happen or not? "
That's part of the problem here, you don't understand what the Hebrew Bible says about the messianic age. Not what the Christian Bible says, what the Hebrew Bible says. It's very clear, surprised you missed it.
You said -
"Sorry I can't and don't want to convince anybody, it is just the truth I need to speak of."
That's fine, you are welcome to believe what you think it the truth, no convincing here!
"First we have to distinguish:
There are all kinds of Jews, some who don't believe in god, few who believe that Jesus was the Messiah and others who believe in the god JHWH of the "old testament" (what you call the "Hebrew bible"!?)
And about those last group of Jews (probably the majority) I think they don't want to hear these passages where it is written that the Messiah will have to suffer"
Agreed, there are all types of Jews, some more observant than others and some not observant at all.
It's not "what you call the "Hebrew Bible", it is the Hebrew Bible! Don't forget we have the original, way before the Christian bible.
What do you mean "don't want to hear passages that the Messiah will have to suffer". We read everything and question everything. Yes, there are certain thoughts in Judaism that the Messiah will suffer.
You said -
"It fits just so perfectly to Jesus, that it is overwhelming prophecy.
He is the promised Messiah, voluntary sacrifice to burden our sins to become redeemer for all mankind and conquerer of death, got resurrected by god and is alive. I believe that."
Yes, from a Christian perspective it fits really well. Especially if the meanings of the words are changed to fit that perspective.
I understand what you believe, it just has nothing to do with what the Hebrew Bible teaches.
You said -
"You are right, a temple is not needed, but after the old bond of Moses there is sacrifice needed, blood. Or not?
No, blood is not needed. How were the Israelite's forgiven for their sins in the 70 years between the 1st and 2nd Temple?
What doe II Chronicles 7:14 say and many other passages in the Hebrew bible?
You said -
"The bible I am reading and every bible so far I have seen is written with all its 66 books completely by Jews or Israelites. Maybe I miss 1 or 2 non Israeli autors, then please correct me.
But almost everything about the one true god is passed down by Jews, even all the books, letters and scriptures between 0-100 AD about Jesus and the Apostles. It is just that Jews and many others don't want to believe them."
You missed the point of my question, let me rephrase it - According to the Hebrew Bible, what will the world look like in the messianic age when the Messiah comes?
You said -
"I don't understand what you mean by that.... what should happen or not? "
That's part of the problem here, you don't understand what the Hebrew Bible says about the messianic age. Not what the Christian Bible says, what the Hebrew Bible says. It's very clear, surprised you missed it.
You said -
"Sorry I can't and don't want to convince anybody, it is just the truth I need to speak of."
That's fine, you are welcome to believe what you think it the truth, no convincing here!