Hebrew Language question of wordings in the Torah

[00120260a@gmail.com]

Hi,
I choose this subforum it's really a question of language and interpretation of it.
I wish to know how Jews read  in their own language, the passage of Genesis where God curses Eve to bring about lots and lots of children.
Some English translations mention "thy sorrow and they conception. I sorrow though shalt bring forth cihldren" while other say "your pain in childbirth, in pain you will give birth to children". So, what does the text mention explicitely, conception or delivery ?
The meaning is completely different.

Also, what tense does God use, is this an imperative mood, intended to give order ?
Or would it fit with a simple statement of a fact ?

Thanks,
Mehdi

[searchinmyroots]

Hello Medhi and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

As for your question, hopefully some of the Hebrew speakers here will be able to provide an answer.

The Complete Jewish Bible on the Chabad website has it as -

Genesis 3:16 - To the woman He said, "I shall surely increase your sorrow and your pregnancy; in pain you shall bear children.

Sefaria has it as -

And to the woman [God] said,
“I will greatly expand
Your hard labor—and your pregnancies;
In hardship shall you bear children.




But of course the Hebrew may render it a bit different.

Also, you'll notice that G-d does not curse Eve, He only curses the serpent.

[Dave]

You've brought up an interesting question about the interpretation of a specific passage from the Book of Genesis in the Bible. The passage you're referring to is a part of the curse God gives to Eve after she and Adam eat from the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden. This passage can be found in Genesis 3:16.

In terms of the specific wording and interpretation, it's essential to consider that the Bible has been translated into various languages, and different translations can sometimes convey slightly different nuances. The two variations you mentioned are common translations that capture the essence of the curse but may emphasize different aspects.
You can learn more here : https://torahscrollforsale.com

The phrase "thy sorrow and thy conception" emphasizes the sorrow and pain associated with conception and childbirth, suggesting a broader understanding of the suffering that would accompany the entire process of bringing forth children.

On the other hand, "your pain in childbirth" focuses specifically on the pain associated with childbirth, which is more narrowly focused on the actual delivery of children.

Regarding the tense and mood of God's words, this is a matter of grammatical interpretation. The Hebrew language in which the original text was written can be nuanced, and the translation can be understood as either an imperative or a statement of fact.

Some interpretations view God's words as a statement of fact, describing the consequences of human actions: "You will experience pain in childbirth." Others see it as an imperative, a command that emphasizes the severity of the punishment: "You must experience pain in childbirth."

[searchinmyroots]

If I'm not mistaken, it never really says that G-d "cursed" either Adam or Eve.

It does however say that G-d cursed the serpent.

[Dana]

Reading the Hebrew without  English translation I noticed there is no modal verb implied or even suggested for Genesis 3:16.  There is no “I will or I shall”  that most translations give in English. 

Any help or corrections on my interpretation below would be appreciated and welcomed.

(To the woman He said, greatly increased will be your suffering and your pregnancies, in pain you will deliver children…)

I understand this as consequential whereas the English translations with the addition of the modal verb lend a harsher rendering, even personal.

Does anyone else see this?

Also, the previous verse where Hashem speaks to the snake there is the modal form in, “I will put enmity between you and the woman…” the Hebrew (Asheet) is a Qal, imperfect - meaning, I will put.


Although I might add that reading this through 21st Century eyes I am grateful for birth control and anaesthesiologists.

I am not Jewish but I do take an interest in the language.

[Blue Bird]

The word-for-word translation is much softer. The German translation also says "I will increase greatly...". Perhaps it is an adaptation to typical usage. For example, in English you use a passive form very often, while in German it sounds strange and we change the translation to an active form.

[searchinmyroots]

Thanks Dana and Blue Bird for your insights!

Always nice to see things from different angles.

[Blue Bird]

Thanks Dana and Blue Bird for your insights!

Always nice to see things from different angles.

You're welcome! (To add to my answer: Most of the time a passive translation from English to German is possible. It is just more elegant and common to convert it to the active form and choose "somebody" or something like that as the subject.)

[rosends]

Here is how I would translate 3:16

אֶֽל־הָאִשָּׁ֣ה אָמַ֗ר הַרְבָּ֤ה אַרְבֶּה֙ עִצְּבוֹנֵ֣ךְ וְהֵֽרֹנֵ֔ךְ בְּעֶ֖צֶב תֵּֽלְדִ֣י בָנִ֑ים וְאֶל־אִישֵׁךְ֙ תְּשׁ֣וּקָתֵ֔ךְ וְה֖וּא יִמְשׇׁל־בָּֽךְ

to the woman (he) said I will excessively increase your sadness and your pregnancy, in sorrow you will birth sons and to your husband will be your desire and he will will rule over you.