Exodus 16

[Robert]

27 It came about that on the seventh day, [some] of the people went out to gather [manna], but they did not find [any]. 28 The Lord said to Moses, How long will you refuse to observe My commandments and My teachings? 29 See that the Lord has given you the Sabbath. Therefore, on the sixth day, He gives you bread for two days. Let each man remain in his place; let no man leave his place on the seventh day. 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

A little unclear what's happening in these passages (whether some of the Israelites went out on the Sabbath to collect bread or they did not), but it sounds like this is the order of events: 27 - some of the Israelites go out to gather bread on the Sabbath, finding none; 28 - the Lord (for some reason) blames Moses rather than the ones who went out to gather the bread; 29 - Moses rectifies the situation by telling the Israelites not to go out; 30 - the Israelites obey. Perhaps Moses' sin was that he didn't adequately instruct the Israelites on what to do on the Sabbath (just a guess), but the way the Lord phrased His criticism sounds more fitting for the Israelites who went out to gather bread on the Sabbath.
[/quote]


Robert's response:

I do not experience your query. For me the verses are clear. Some tried to gather on the Sabbath.
Verses 23-26 seem clear:

Exodus 16:23:
23. [...] he said to them, That is what the Lord spoke, Tomorrow is a rest day, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake whatever you wish to bake, and cook whatever you wish to cook, and all the rest leave over to keep until morning. [...]

25. Moses said, Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field.

Rashi comments on verse 25 as follows:
And Moses said, “Eat it today, etc.”. In the morning, when they were accustomed to go out and gather, they came to ask, “Shall we go out or not?” He [Moses] said to them, “What you have in your possession eat.” In the evening, they came before him again and asked him whether they could go out. He said to them, “Today is the Sabbath.” He saw that they were concerned that perhaps the manna had ceased, and would no longer come down. [So] he said to them, “Today you will not find it.” What is the meaning of "today"? [This implies that] today you will not find it, but tomorrow you will find it. — [from Mechilta]

26. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day [which is the] Sabbath on it there will be none.

The people knew that the Sabbath was a day of rest with very strict restrictions against doing all sorts of things. Moses warned them they had a double portion of "Mon" from Friday and there would be no "Mon" in the fields on the Sabbath.


I believe the word "you" ('How long will you refuse to observe My commandments and My teachings?') here refers to the entire people, who must bear the sin of those who transgressed.

[Robert]

Exodus 16:34

As the Lord had commanded Moses, Aaron deposited it before the testimony to be preserved.

Just out of curiosity, I looked up what "testimony" means here and I found this translation:

As the Lord commanded Moses, Aaron put the manna with the tablets of the covenant law, so that it might be preserved.

So the "testimony" is the 10 Commandments. The manna (bread*) was preserved with the tablets in the Arch of the Covenant.



Robert's response:

Exodus 16:33:33. [...] Moses said to Aaron, Take one jug and put there an omerful of manna, and deposit it before the Lord to be preserved for your generations.

Rashi comments:
[...] deposit it before the Lord. 
Before the Ark. This verse was not said until the Tent of Meeting was built, but it was written here in the section dealing with the manna. —

[Robert]

And the children of Israel ate the manna for forty years until they came to an inhabited land. They ate the manna until they came to the border of the land of Canaan.

So the Israelites ate the 1 omer's worth of bread over 40 years? How often did they eat it? What portion sizes did they eat? Was it a formal part of a ceremony or ritual? Was it like Jesus multiplying the fish such that there was always a sufficient supply for all to eat? When Exodus 16:34 uses the term "preserved" does that describe not only the freshness of the bread but its quantity as well?


Robert's response:

The previous verses in particular verses 16, and 21 to 24, make it clear there was an Omer each day, though there was a double portion on Friday which lasted for both Friday, and Saturday the sabbath. 
They ate it every day. The portions were up to the individual which they could take from daily Omer. 
It was not part of any ceremony or ritual though they would have said a blessing as thanks to Hashem both before and after their meals.

The "mon" to be preserved with the Ark (verse 34), unless disturbed, would have remained as it was when new as confirmed by the words for your generations" in Exodus 16:32, below. This preservation would have been achieved either by the means available at the time, or by Hashem deploying supernatural power.

Exodus 16:32:
32. Moses said, This is the thing that the Lord commanded: Let one omerful of it [the "Mon" (Manna)] be preserved for your generations, in order that they see the bread that I fed you in the desert when I took you out of the land of Egypt.

Translation extract source:
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo...ter-16.htm

[Robert]

The omer is one tenth of an ephah.

According to Google AI, an ephah is about 22 liters, making an omer a bit more than 2 liters (that'll fill one's belly for sure!). Why the need to mention this in such an awkward place in the story (or at all), I'm not sure. We already know from Exodus 16:16 that an omer is approximately one's "eating capacity" (so a full stomach's worth). But who am I to complain about extra information being inserted at any point in the story?

* I no longer like calling it "manna" since manna means "what is it".



Robert's response:

'The omer is actually a biblical-era measurement (equivalent to approximately 43 oz.).'

Extract source:
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_c...Haomer.htm

AI Overview:
'An average adult stomach can comfortably hold between 34 to 50 ounces (1 to 1.5 liters) of food and liquid when moderately full. However, the stomach is an elastic organ and can expand significantly, especially after a large meal, [...]'.

[gib65]

I do not experience the query that you have.
To me the wording clearly says that the amount provided for one weekday will be doubled on Friday; for they are not to go gathering on the Sabbath. Unlike other weekdays, on the Sabbath the extra amount will last two days - Friday and Saturday, instead of decaying by the end of one day.

Yes, that became clear as I read further into the chapter. What I think I was missing at first was that the manna would spoil after a day and so they couldn't accumulate it over the week. Initially I was imagining they saved up the manna and however much they had on Friday, God doubled.

I believe you have the correct impression here. Yes, Exodus clearly indicates that the people were persistent doubters. They needed constant reminders as in the example above.

If their skepticism is about whether this is the one true God or perhaps some demigod or demon, or even that Moses and Aaron are sorcerers performing all these miracles themselves (and deceiving the people into believing they are being lead by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), it's not surprising that their faith would falter so often, even after God would provide for them in miraculous ways. It had to have occurred to them that even a demigod or demon, or a couple of sorcerers, could arguably perform miracles and provide for them, so a display of such miracles isn't necessarily proof that this is the one true God. And I suppose no amount of miracles would be proof. On the other hand, their complaints are usually that they're going to starve to death in the wilderness, not that this might be a false god. They should know by now that, whether the one true God or a demon or a couple of sorcerers, they will be provided for. Something is obviously taking care of them.

My understanding is that Moses and Aaron were humble, and in the passage were humbling themselves before the arrogant.

Ah yes, this interpretation makes sense as well. But there's still the matter of who the complaints ought to be leveled against, and Moses and Aaron seem to be pointing to the Lord. Are they blaming the Lord? Or are they saying: we cannot address your complaints as we are but mere humans, but the Lord can. In that sense, Moses and Aaron aren't blaming the Lord per se, but directing the people to the source of all their answers.

Contributor "gib65" wrote:
"[...] in the passages that immediately follow, it's not clear what the miracle or act of God was":
For me it is clear that the miracle is the providing of the "Mon" (the correct rendering of "Manna") and the providing of the quail.
Moses has to be constantly ready to communicate with Hashem or be in such communication. Therefore he delegates certain tasks to Aaron. My view is that Hashem appeared in a cloud only to Moses.

No, the people do not witness Moses' communications with Hashem.
The people have made complaints to Moses, who refers the complaints to Hashem, and then Moses communicates Hashem's response to the people.

Hmmm... this is a difficult passage to interpret then. Verse 10 mentions how Aaron turned the people's attention to the desert and that the Lord appeared in the cloud. I suppose that could be read as the Lord appearing in the cloud only to Moses while the people's attention was turned away (to the desert), suggesting that the sight of the Lord was too much for the people. But just before that, in verse 9, it says that Aaron told the community to "draw near before the Lord" which strongly suggests the people were being ushered towards the place where the Lord would appear in the cloud.

If I take these passages from biblegateway.com, they say this:

9 Then Moses told Aaron, “Say to the entire Israelite community, ‘Come before the Lord, for he has heard your grumbling.’” 10 While Aaron was speaking to the whole Israelite community, they looked toward the desert, and there was the glory of the Lord appearing in the cloud. 11 The Lord said to Moses, 12 “I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.’”

This puts a slightly different spin on it. This suggests that God's appearance in the cloud was not what He intended for the Israelites to "come before the Lord" for (as instructed by Aaron), but just happened to occur while Aaron was speaking to the crowd, which (understandably) caught their attention as they turned to the desert to look. And if you're right that the Lord only spoke to Moses (i.e. the people didn't hear the Lord), then it makes sense that Moses would convey the message afterward, and that would be the purpose of gathering the people to hear God's response to their complaints.

I believe your understanding is correct, that the amount provided for one weekday will be doubled on Friday; for they are not to go gathering on the Sabbath. Unlike other weekdays, on the Sabbath the extra amount will last two days - Friday and Saturday, instead of decaying by the end of one day.

What do you believe the importance of the Sabbath is? I've heard it is to teach the importance of rest. Others say it is to teach the importance of focusing on God and the important things in life. But after reading Exodus 16, I've gathered another possibility: maybe it's to teach the importance of saving. If the Israelites know that on the 7th day, they are not to gather manna, then they must do double the work on the 6th day in order to save for the 7th. This generalizes to work in general. If a people are to have a 6 day work week and rest on the 7th day, then it is not enough to work for one's fill on a daily basis, one must work for one's fill on each day plus a bit extra in order to save for the 7th day. So the lesson of the Sabbath could be (among other things) to learn the importance of saving for the future, not just living for the day.

Moses accepted and implemented Jethro’s plan, appointing captains of thousands, captains of hundreds, captains of fifties and captains of tens.'

Ah, I'm starting to get into Exodus 18 now.

The people knew that the Sabbath was a day of rest with very strict restrictions against doing all sorts of things. Moses warned them they had a double portion of "Mon" from Friday and there would be no "Mon" in the fields on the Sabbath.

Right. And Rashi makes a good point here: what will they find after the seventh day? The scripture (at least this translation) doesn't say there will be no manna from the 7th day onward, just on the 7th day. So is he suggesting that this week long supply of manna is a recurring thing, sort of like the first "work week"?

Then again, there are verses 32 to 35 (which I commented on further into my initial post) which seem to suggest that all Moses and Aaron had to do to feed a nation of freed men and women for the next 40 years was to preserve an omer's worth of manna in a jug with the testimony (the commandments). So what happened between the week of manna from the sky and the day Aaron added the manna to the testimony (which had to await the forging of the 10 Commandments)? Were there a series of such weeks, the 7th day of each being a day of rest and no manna from the sky?

Another observation I made after re-reading verses 23 to 26 is that at no point does God or Moses command the Israelites not to go out on the 7th day, only that there will be no manna on that day. I'm sure this is just a matter of this particular translation, but it sort of implies that some of the Israelites decided to go out and check "just in case", and needed Moses to actually instruct them not to go out. God would still be in the right to scold them as they still betray a lack of faith. To check "just in case" implies that God could be wrong or lying. In fact, this whole journey seems to be a test of their faith. Sometimes they lack faith in God's ability or willingness to provide, other times in the truthfulness of His words.

The previous verses in particular verses 16, and 21 to 24, make it clear there was an Omer each day, though there was a double portion on Friday which lasted for both Friday, and Saturday the sabbath.
They ate it every day. The portions were up to the individual which they could take from daily Omer.
It was not part of any ceremony or ritual though they would have said a blessing as thanks to Hashem both before and after their meals.

Yes, this is true of verses 16 and 21 - 24, but verses 34 and 35, which I was focused on, talk about how Aaron puts an omer's worth in a jug to be preserved with the testimony and that this fed the entire nation of Israelites for the next 40 years. I'm contemplating what the term "preserved" means in verse 34. Normally, when we use the term "preserved" in the modern world, we mean "to keep fresh" but for this one omer of manna to feed an entire nation of people for 40 years, I'm wondering if "preserve" means "to preserve the quantity of manna" so that there is always 1 omer's worth.

However, another interpretation of this passage (keeping with Rashi's proposal) is to separate verses 34 and 35 as talking about two different things. Verse 34 talks about how Aaron kept the manna with the testimony, whereas 35 talks about the Israelites eating perhaps not the manna from the testimony but the manna that falls from the sky as usual (in other words, God perpetuated the week long cycles of manna falling from the sky). The manna that was kept with the testimony would be, I guess, untouched. Is that what you mean to say?