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The Relationship Between Judaism and Christianity
#11
(02-21-2019, 12:30 AM)Jude86 Wrote: A lot of the questions you asked do get to the heart of something that's a bit difficult for me to discuss, and that's the issue of brotherhood between our two religions; because, to be honest (and maybe this is a case of Christian privilege) I had always considered us to be brothers and so it initially came as a bit of slap in the face to find out that we aren't really seen that way.

Don't get me wrong, we are all brother and sisters, created in the image of G-d.

It's just that according to what G-d says in the Hebrew bible, he singled us out to do His mission.

That consists of teaching others how G-d wants us to treat each other while we are here on this Earth.

Sorry, didn't mean it to be a slap in the face.
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#12
(02-21-2019, 01:06 AM)Channalee Wrote:
(02-21-2019, 12:30 AM)Jude86 Wrote: A lot of the questions you asked do get to the heart of something that's a bit difficult for me to discuss, and that's the issue of brotherhood between our two religions; because, to be honest (and maybe this is a case of Christian privilege) I had always considered us to be brothers and so it initially came as a bit of slap in the face to find out that we aren't really seen that way.

At the risk of sounding like an idealistic peace-nik, wouldn't it be cool if all peoples of all religions were to find some reason to call each other "brother" and "sister"?

Sounding like a peacenik is perfectly fine. I'm a peacenik myself, though I often find myself on the short end of that. Thank you for your encouragement. Smile
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#13
(02-21-2019, 01:13 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:
(02-21-2019, 12:30 AM)Jude86 Wrote: A lot of the questions you asked do get to the heart of something that's a bit difficult for me to discuss, and that's the issue of brotherhood between our two religions; because, to be honest (and maybe this is a case of Christian privilege) I had always considered us to be brothers and so it initially came as a bit of slap in the face to find out that we aren't really seen that way.

Don't get me wrong, we are all brother and sisters, created in the image of G-d.

It's just that according to what G-d says in the Hebrew bible, he singled us out to do His mission.

That consists of teaching others how G-d wants us to treat each other while we are here on this Earth.

Sorry, didn't mean it to be a slap in the face.

It's no trouble. You were honest and that's what I need to hear. Does the Christian (Catholic) perspective on this question sound strange to you?
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#14
(02-21-2019, 01:24 AM)Jude86 Wrote:
(02-21-2019, 01:13 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote:
(02-21-2019, 12:30 AM)Jude86 Wrote: A lot of the questions you asked do get to the heart of something that's a bit difficult for me to discuss, and that's the issue of brotherhood between our two religions; because, to be honest (and maybe this is a case of Christian privilege) I had always considered us to be brothers and so it initially came as a bit of slap in the face to find out that we aren't really seen that way.

Don't get me wrong, we are all brother and sisters, created in the image of G-d.

It's just that according to what G-d says in the Hebrew bible, he singled us out to do His mission.

That consists of teaching others how G-d wants us to treat each other while we are here on this Earth.

Sorry, didn't mean it to be a slap in the face.

It's no trouble. You were honest and that's what I need to hear. Does the Christian (Catholic) perspective on this question sound strange to you?

I'm sorry, what is the specific question you are referring to?
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#15
(02-21-2019, 01:25 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I'm sorry, what is the specific question you are referring to?
So, the fact that Catholics see themselves as being so integrally connected to Judaism--do you find that to be a problem? There was a specific portion of a prayer that I cited that talks about the Hebrew children as "our forebearers" being led out of Egypt. There are other Catholic documents that refer to Judaism as the brother of Christianity and that refer to Jews as "our fathers in faith." If we Catholics don't see ourselves as being a totally different creature from Judaism, are we Catholics problematising the nature of the relationship between our two faiths by not recognising the "hard break" that I'm hearing being described here.
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#16
(02-21-2019, 01:44 AM)Jude86 Wrote:
(02-21-2019, 01:25 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I'm sorry, what is the specific question you are referring to?
So, the fact that Catholics see themselves as being so integrally connected to Judaism--do you find that to be a problem? There was a specific portion of a prayer that I cited that talks about the Hebrew children as "our forebearers" being led out of Egypt. There are other Catholic documents that refer to Judaism as the brother of Christianity and that refer to Jews as "our fathers in faith." If we Catholics don't see ourselves as being a totally different creature from Judaism, are we Catholics problematising the nature of the relationship between our two faiths by not recognising the "hard break" that I'm hearing being described here.

I don't find it to be a problem as it is true for others denominations of Christianity, the Noahides and the Muslim religion as well. If we are doing our job, then yes there should be a connection.

If we were meant to teach, and you see yourselves as students and then teachers yourselves, then that is a good thing. Of course some of the teachings may differ and we aren't in agreement with, but the overall do good for mankind message is a positive one.

Remember, what I have said isn't me speaking, it's what G-d says in the Hebrew bible.

And in the Hebrew bible G-d does say the Jewish people are different from the gentile nations. Again not that we are better as He never says that, just that we were chosen to let the world know of G-d's ways.
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#17
Oh yeah, no, we know that the Jews are set apart by HaShem as separate from the Gentiles--Catholics (or most of us Catholics, I hope) recognise this distinction. I know, a lot of this stuff is stuff that's difficult to describe because we understand the nature of our relationship to each other in slightly different terms.

Sort of like, we recognise that our branch is distinct (because we see ourselves as a branch) but also recognise our similarities.

I'm just sort of trying to explore this labyrinthine topic.
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#18
I'm curious why some folks are of the opinion that if Jesus believed himself to be the messiah, if his followers believed him to be the messiah, that such belief, in and of itself, made them apostates.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
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#19
(02-21-2019, 11:57 AM)RabbiO Wrote: I'm curious why some folks are of the opinion that if Jesus believed himself to be the messiah, if his followers believed him to be the messiah, that such belief, in and of itself, made them apostates.

It's said that in every generation, there is one person born who could possibly be the Messiah. It's not merely the belief in a Messiah that makes one an apostate, else there would have been an awful lot of Jewish apostates in the Lubavitcher community who believed at the time that Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson was the Messiah.  The good Rabbi tried put a stop to it and, when he died and the world hadn't changed, his followers realized that the Rabbi had only been a possible Messiah -- that the time was not yet right for the Messiah to come.
 
The difference with Jesus is that his followers back then and today believe that Jesus rose from the dead, was the son of God, and fulfilled all the requirements to be considered the Messiah.  Christians not only continue to view Jesus as the Messiah, they worship him as being a one-third part of God and/or the son of God.
 
There's also the controversial question put forth by many scholars:  "Did Jesus even exist at all?"  If the story of Jesus was purposely created in order to bring about a social and political change at that time and over the succeeding centuries, it certainly worked.  But I don't think that was quite the change in the world that Judaism's expectations of the Messiah would have fulfilled.
Heart !לחיים

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#20
I rather like the Twin Birth perspective offered in the Wikipedia article.
To be is to stand for. - Abraham Joshua Heschel
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