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Kosher pork
#1
I know this article is a year old, but I just happened upon it. Even if pork were to be deemed kosher if grown from cells, would you eat it?
I can't imagine doing so, and it seems to go against tradition if not the Torah.

https://www.newsweek.com/cloned-pigs-kos...03CikefcIQ
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#2
Not me!

I wouldn't eat modified shellfish either. Big Grin
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#3
If it didn't COME from a clean animal, I will not eat the meat, no matter what.
If grown from cells and therefore not cut from a humanely slaughtered clean animal, it is not going in my belly.
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#4
(05-29-2019, 09:34 PM)Yehudani wrote: If it didn't COME from a clean animal, I will not eat the meat, no matter what.
If grown from cells and therefore not cut from a humanely slaughtered clean animal, it is not going in my belly.

I 100% agree, and I think most Jews who keep kosher would agree. Even if deemed kosher, something just seems wrong with it.
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#5
This is particularly interesting. I think we all have a sense that regardless of whether the meat is a cut off of an animal or merely cells grown in a jar, it's still technically that animal. The genetic sequence of those cells has its origin in an unclean animal. Even if the maker of this frankenpork had completely and utterly synthetically created this meat, the idea for the sequencing of the cells and genes comes from a pig.

In other words, it seems like a form of cheating to say that it isn't pork.

Yet, on the other hand, it could be argued that the cells do not constitute a pig but merely a potential pig. And since the meat isn't coming from a pig, therefore isn't pork. After all, if I have an idea of a tree in my mind and create something resembling a tree, it is not a tree. Indeed, if I plant a seed and begin to grow a tree, the shoot that comes up is not yet a tree but something that might become one.

If this frankenpork that's created in a jar isn't even that much: The cells have no chance to even become a pig. To be a potential pig, the cells would have to have the opportunity, if left to their own devices, to become a pig and they don't. Left to their own devices, the frankenpork would never become a pig at all.

Let's look at it this way: If I cut myself and bleed, the cells of my blood contain all of my DNA--human DNA; and yet, those cells are not human beings. Just because my blood has the total sequence of my human DNA doesn't mean that each an every one of those blood cells is a human being. In that same way, the cells of that frankenpork, if they don't ORIGINATE with a pig, if they have no chance of even becoming a POTENTIAL pig, if they've never been alive in order to even be called a pig, they cannot be considered pork: Not in the strictest sense of the word.

And yet on the other hand: COME ON! It's clearly cheating! XD HaShem didn't spell everything out for us in the Torah. In Exodus 23:19 where He prohibits the mixing of milk and meat, He said, "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk." That isn't taken to mean that He was speaking exclusively to goats and lambs, but applied to all clean animals. In this same way, where He prohibits the eating the pork, there is the letter of His law and then there's the spirit of its intention; and I cannot imagine that this workaround would be in any way in keeping with the teaching that's been handed down.

But it's for each individual to make his or her mind up. Decide for yourselves, there may be better arguments either for or against.
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#6
Nice analogies Jude.

I think it is just playing with G-d's creations to try to change things so people can say it's okay.

For me, that isn't right.

For others, it may be!
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#7
(05-31-2019, 03:22 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: Nice analogies Jude.

I think it is just playing with G-d's creations to try to change things so people can say it's okay.

For me, that isn't right.

For others, it may be!

Another thing to consider, though, and I think this is interesting: The ability to mix milk and meat could itself be controverted by the deeming of this frankenmeat as parev. If the meat was never alive, what's the harm in mixing the two, some might argue.

Either way, it seems like a slippery slope and a way to play with HaShem's law to do it this way.

On the other hand, I do think that the creation of frankenmeat is, in general, a good thing whether declared parev or not for a few reasons: One, I worry about the treatment of animals in captivity and raised for slaughter. I think that this meat would go a long way toward dampening instances of animal cruelty. Secondly, it's important because of global warming: Farms are large producers of greenhouse gasses and getting rid of the system could be a way to curtail some of those damages. Thirdly, it seems like it would go a long way toward ending world hunger. If this frankenmeat doesn't have to go through the process of being fed, watered, raised, shorn, and cared for over years and years, it would go a long way toward cutting the cost of food by leaps and bounds and might be an alternative to raising livestock for people who need sustenance now.
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#8
(05-31-2019, 09:40 PM)Jude86 wrote:
(05-31-2019, 03:22 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: Nice analogies Jude.

I think it is just playing with G-d's creations to try to change things so people can say it's okay.

For me, that isn't right.

For others, it may be!

Another thing to consider, though, and I think this is interesting: The ability to mix milk and meat could itself be controverted by the deeming of this frankenmeat as parev. If the meat was never alive, what's the harm in mixing the two, some might argue.

Either way, it seems like a slippery slope and a way to play with HaShem's law to do it this way.

On the other hand, I do think that the creation of frankenmeat is, in general, a good thing whether declared parev or not for a few reasons: One, I worry about the treatment of animals in captivity and raised for slaughter. I think that this meat would go a long way toward dampening instances of animal cruelty. Secondly, it's important because of global warming: Farms are large producers of greenhouse gasses and getting rid of the system could be a way to curtail some of those damages. Thirdly, it seems like it would go a long way toward ending world hunger. If this frankenmeat doesn't have to go through the process of being fed, watered, raised, shorn, and cared for over years and years, it would go a long way toward cutting the cost of food by leaps and bounds and might be an alternative to raising livestock for people who need sustenance now.

I agree that the advantages of lower cost and semi "instant" food would be a big advantage. I have no problem with test tube meat if it comes from a kosher animal, although in the end I'm not sure I would want to eat it. It still seems a little disgusting, lol.
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#9
(05-31-2019, 09:03 AM)Jude86 wrote: This is particularly interesting............

And yet on the other hand: COME ON! It's clearly cheating! XD HaShem didn't spell everything out for us in the Torah. In Exodus 23:19 where He prohibits the mixing of milk and meat, He said, "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk." That isn't taken to mean that He was speaking exclusively to goats and lambs, but applied to all clean animals. In this same way, where He prohibits the eating the pork, there is the letter of His law and then there's the spirit of its intention; and I cannot imagine that this workaround would be in any way in keeping with the teaching that's been handed down.
You are certainly entitled to hold whatever views you have on this matter. However, speaking frankly, to me as a Jew and as a rabbi, your chutzpah as a Christian in making determinations about Jewish scripture and Jewish law are rather off putting.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
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#10
(06-10-2019, 09:48 PM)RabbiO wrote:
(05-31-2019, 09:03 AM)Jude86 wrote: This is particularly interesting............

And yet on the other hand: COME ON! It's clearly cheating! XD HaShem didn't spell everything out for us in the Torah. In Exodus 23:19 where He prohibits the mixing of milk and meat, He said, "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk." That isn't taken to mean that He was speaking exclusively to goats and lambs, but applied to all clean animals. In this same way, where He prohibits the eating the pork, there is the letter of His law and then there's the spirit of its intention; and I cannot imagine that this workaround would be in any way in keeping with the teaching that's been handed down.
You are certainly entitled to hold whatever views you have on this matter. However, speaking frankly, to me as a Jew and as a rabbi, your chutzpah as a Christian in making determinations about Jewish scripture and Jewish law are rather off putting.

My apologies, I was just having a back and forth with myself. I intended no disrespect. I think I should probably leave.
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