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Questions about Jewish belief and the Bible
#1
Hello everyone,
 
I am a Christian, no saying "oh no not another one" ok!   Dodgy
 
I am looking at who Jesus was and bible prophecies about Him and I'm trying to understand why most Jewish people don't accept Him as their Messiah.
 
There are many bible prophecies about Him which came true, but... I found out this morning that the "Jewish Bible is commonly called the Tanakh, an acronym for Torah, Neviim, Ketuvim--the three divisions of the text. These divisions are different from those in Christian Bibles. Most importantly, the interpretation of the material in common with Christians differs". I got this from somewhere else this morning, basically a website forum where you cannot answer answers to your questions... very strange.


So my question is this, if the bible prophecies Jesus (Immanuel) coming and all the prophecies from Isaiah to Micah, Ezra, and others predict His coming, His life, death and resurrection, and all of these prophecies happened, even if you don't believe in the bible, why do Jewish not believe in Him? 

If you only use the books in the Jewish bible and they don't mention Jesus, (I'm assuming they don't at this point as I have never read them) but there is historical proof that Jesus existed, then it's worth looking into.

I'm not assuming that Jewish scholars, Rabbi's and others have not done this, but I'm just interested.

All other religions have their god's, but Christians worship the Jewish God, and I fully believe in Him, but I also believe that without Jesus who I believe is the Messiah that Jewish people are waiting for, we have no salvation.

The other thing is that the Bible prophecies concerning Israel: returning to their own land given to them by God Himself, vegetation growing in the desert, using your own currency again, speaking Hebrew, etc, have all come true and this concerns the end of the gentile age and the time of Israel again when Jesus returns to take His own, (the Rapture) prior to the tribulation.

Other prophecies regarding events in the middle east are also happening, which to me is more proof that the bible is correct in it's predictions.

I would like to know what anyone thinks to all this. 

I'm sorry if all this has been asked before, but I would like to hear your opinion no matter how much it differs from mine because I want to learn.

Thank you.

Peergint
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#2
(06-10-2019, 12:20 PM)Peergint wrote: Hello everyone,
 
I am a Christian, no saying "oh no not another one" ok!   Dodgy
 
I am looking at who Jesus was and bible prophecies about Him and I'm trying to understand why most Jewish people don't accept Him as their Messiah.
 
There are many bible prophecies about Him which came true, but... I found out this morning that the "Jewish Bible is commonly called the Tanakh, an acronym for Torah, Neviim, Ketuvim--the three divisions of the text. These divisions are different from those in Christian Bibles. Most importantly, the interpretation of the material in common with Christians differs". I got this from somewhere else this morning, basically a website forum where you cannot answer answers to your questions... very strange.

We do not need an interpretation, because we have the original Hebrew it was written in. Yes, the Christian bible divides things differently, why did they change the original?



So my question is this, if the bible prophecies Jesus (Immanuel) coming and all the prophecies from Isaiah to Micah, Ezra, and others predict His coming, His life, death and resurrection, and all of these prophecies happened, even if you don't believe in the bible, why do Jewish not believe in Him? 

Immanuel is not a messiah, just a person written of in Isaiah. All of the prophecies you have listed have nothing to do with Jesus. They all are dervived from mistranslations, twisting of the words or additions that are not in the original.


If you only use the books in the Jewish bible and they don't mention Jesus, (I'm assuming they don't at this point as I have never read them) but there is historical proof that Jesus existed, then it's worth looking into.

G-d tells us all we need to do in the Hebrew bible, we don't need anything further. Sort of like why you probably do not believe in the JW's or Mormon bibles. Um, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that Jesus existed.

I'm not assuming that Jewish scholars, Rabbi's and others have not done this, but I'm just interested.

Yes, many have and have come to the same conclusion. Jesus is not the awaited Jewish messiah.


All other religions have their god's, but Christians worship the Jewish God, and I fully believe in Him, but I also believe that without Jesus who I believe is the Messiah that Jewish people are waiting for, we have no salvation.

Actually, it's not the same G-d if you believe yours is 3 in 1. The Hebrew word for salvation has a much different meaning than how Christain's understand it.


The other thing is that the Bible prophecies concerning Israel: returning to their own land given to them by God Himself, vegetation growing in the desert, using your own currency again, speaking Hebrew, etc, have all come true and this concerns the end of the gentile age and the time of Israel again when Jesus returns to take His own, (the Rapture) prior to the tribulation.

Other prophecies regarding events in the middle east are also happening, which to me is more proof that the bible is correct in it's predictions.

I would like to know what anyone thinks to all this. 

I'm sorry if all this has been asked before, but I would like to hear your opinion no matter how much it differs from mine because I want to learn.

Thank you.

Peergint

I answered some of your questions on another post.

Please see above in RED as to some of the answers to this one.
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#3
Hey, Peergint, just wanna make sure you tred carefully and don't cross the line and accidentally start proselytising.
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#4
Quote:Actually, it's not the same G-d if you believe yours is 3 in 1.

Oh really? I didn't know that this was a point of contention. The Trinity is a super confusing concept--even to me--but the end result is that we only believe in one, indivisible God (despite what the name Trinity might imply). In Catholicism, in fact, we have the Shema Prayer as part of our liturgy insisting on one God; and our prayers, though made in the name of the Trinity always conclude--one God.

Edit:

Also, feel free to ignore this post as it's potentially quarrelsome. I don't mean to ignite a potential powderkeg of theological belief, because the accusation that Christians worship a different God is gonna be super touchy with just about everyone. Being told that "you don't worship HaShem" is a huge slap in the face to any person, I think. So I think it would be better to lay down this conversation since it's only bound, I think to get hurtful. (Hurtful to me.)
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#5
(06-10-2019, 12:20 PM)Peergint wrote: ... There are many bible prophecies about Him which came true, but...

Absolute rubbish. Smile
To be is to stand for. - Abraham Joshua Heschel
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#6
(06-10-2019, 04:08 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: ... We do not need an interpretation, because we have the original Hebrew it was written in.

Our oldest textual witnesses come from the DSS and date to, roughly, the second century B.C.E. Meanwhile, the oldest Masoretic text dates to some nine centuries later.

So, no, we do not have the "original Hebrew."
To be is to stand for. - Abraham Joshua Heschel
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#7
(06-10-2019, 07:56 PM)nili wrote:
(06-10-2019, 04:08 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: ... We do not need an interpretation, because we have the original Hebrew it was written in.

Our oldest textual witnesses come from the DSS and date to, roughly, the second century B.C.E. Meanwhile, the oldest Masoretic text dates to some nine centuries later.

So, no, we do not have the "original Hebrew."

Nili,

What I am referring to is that the Hebrew bible is written in Hebrew, not an interpretation of it.
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#8
(06-10-2019, 07:46 PM)nili wrote:
(06-10-2019, 12:20 PM)Peergint wrote: ... There are many bible prophecies about Him which came true, but...

Absolute rubbish.  Smile

Let's try to be a little nicer when responding please!

Thank you!

Smile
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#9
(06-10-2019, 05:51 PM)Jude86 wrote:
Quote:Actually, it's not the same G-d if you believe yours is 3 in 1.

Oh really? I didn't know that this was a point of contention. The Trinity is a super confusing concept--even to me--but the end result is that we only believe in one, indivisible God (despite what the name Trinity might imply). In Catholicism, in fact, we have the Shema Prayer as part of our liturgy insisting on one God; and our prayers, though made in the name of the Trinity always conclude--one God. ...

From Wikipedia: Shituf:

Quote:Conservative Rabbi Louis Jacobs took a more conciliatory approach:

"Christian thinkers frequently assert that Jewish polemics against trinitarianism are based on an inadequate understanding of what the doctrine really means. It is no doubt true that crude attacks on Christianity as tritheism are unfounded (tritheism is, in fact, heresy from the Christian point of view) and there are subtleties in the doctrine which Christians have tried to uncover. But the fact remains that all Jewish thinkers have rejected trinitarianism as Judaism understands it."
To be is to stand for. - Abraham Joshua Heschel
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#10
(06-10-2019, 05:51 PM)Jude86 wrote:
Quote:Actually, it's not the same G-d if you believe yours is 3 in 1.

Oh really? I didn't know that this was a point of contention. The Trinity is a super confusing concept--even to me--but the end result is that we only believe in one, indivisible God (despite what the name Trinity might imply). In Catholicism, in fact, we have the Shema Prayer as part of our liturgy insisting on one God; and our prayers, though made in the name of the Trinity always conclude--one God.

Edit:

Also, feel free to ignore this post as it's potentially quarrelsome. I don't mean to ignite a potential powderkeg of theological belief, because the accusation that Christians worship a different God is gonna be super touchy with just about everyone. Being told that "you don't worship HaShem" is a huge slap in the face to any person, I think. So I think it would be better to lay down this conversation since it's only bound, I think to get hurtful. (Hurtful to me.)

Sorry if that sounds offensive as it's not meant to be.

What I am saying is that Judaism believes that G-d is one, does not and cannot have separate entities.

I understand Christianity believes G-d is one, but the concept of a human being G-d and a separate "spirit" being G-d as well just has no basis in Judaism.

So for that reason, we do not believe it is the same G-d. Unless you are only referring to the "father" part.
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