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The death of Jesus
#1
What does Judaism say about the death of Jesus?
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#2
I'm not sure what that question means. Judaism generally teaches that Jesus lived and died, that he was crucified because he was seen as an insurrectionist. It may also be that he got into trouble because he was a seducer of Israel. I think Judaism was pluralistic enough in the Second Temple period that that is unlikely, however. People believed loads of different things at that time, and it doesn't seem that Jesus's teachings (as recorded in the Synoptic Gospels, anyway) would have been so extreme as to upset anyone.

I personally don't think that "Jesus" existed. There were plenty of itinerant teachers running around that are similar to what we picture Jesus being, but the specific person of Jesus (born in Bethlehem, raised in Nazareth, gathering followers on the Sea of Galilee, crucified in Jerusalem, etc.) is a biography that was created long after the "facts." I think that the name "Jesus" was pulled from a heretic who lived about 100 years before your Jesus was supposedly born (who was also put to death on the eve of Passover), a student of Yehoshua ben Perachia.

There is no early evidence of Jewish opinions about Jesus. When you ask what Judaism says about Jesus's death, what exactly do you mean?
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#3
That's a strange question George.

Judaism doesn't really say anything on the Jesus that is thought of today.
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#4
(06-29-2020, 09:04 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: That's a strange question George.

Judaism doesn't really say anything on the Jesus that is thought of today.

But surely Judaism knows history:

2.  Cornelius Tacitus, a Roman historian in (55-117 AD), speaks of the Crucifixion of Jesus and Emperor Nero's persecution of Christians in the year 64 AD

"But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiation of the gods did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. CHRISTUS, FROM WHOM THE NAME HAD ITS ORIGIN, SUFFERED THE EXTREME PENALTY during the reign of Tiberius AT THE HANDS OF ONE OF ITS PROCURATORS. PONTIUS PILATUS, and a most mischievous superstition thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular ..."
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#5
Hmmm, a Roman historian that lived from 55-117 AD.

So how did he ever interact with Jesus when he supposedly died in 30 AD?

Plus, unless I don't understand, he wrote that in 64 AD, when he was 9 years old?

Or was he writing about the persecution of Christians that happened in the year 64 AD?

So how old was Tacitus when he wrote this?



I don't know of any writings from people who were alive when Jesus was.
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#6
(06-29-2020, 10:47 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: Hmmm, a Roman historian that lived from 55-117 AD.

So how did he ever interact with Jesus when he supposedly died in 30 AD?

Plus, unless I don't understand, he wrote that in 64 AD, when he was 9 years old?

Or was he writing about the persecution of Christians that happened in the year 64 AD?

So how old was Tacitus when he wrote this?



I don't know of any writings from people who were alive when Jesus was.

He's just repeating history.  He didn't have to be there at the time.

Like an historian now who might research and write about history in the past.

SMR, weren't you brought up Christian or am I thinking of someone else?
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#7
(06-29-2020, 06:10 PM)George wrote: What does Judaism say about the death of Jesus?

So as not to be sidetracked let’s put aside any issues related to the historicity of Jesus. The question remains, what is the meaning of your question?
בקש שלום ורדפהו
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#8
(06-30-2020, 09:58 AM)George wrote:
(06-29-2020, 10:47 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: Hmmm, a Roman historian that lived from 55-117 AD.

So how did he ever interact with Jesus when he supposedly died in 30 AD?

Plus, unless I don't understand, he wrote that in 64 AD, when he was 9 years old?

Or was he writing about the persecution of Christians that happened in the year 64 AD?

So how old was Tacitus when he wrote this?



I don't know of any writings from people who were alive when Jesus was.

He's just repeating history.  He didn't have to be there at the time.

Like an historian now who might research and write about history in the past.

SMR, weren't you brought up Christian or am I thinking of someone else?

As you may know, "repeating" history does not mean all of the events actually happened. You'll see time after time where "history" was corrected.

It's different if you're writing about a letter that George Washington wrote as you have seen and may have the actual letter.

What's very striking is that, unless I'm mistaken, none, I repeat, none of the historians that were alive at the time of when Jesus is said to have lived ever wrote about him.

Why not? If Jesus made such a big impression on the world when he is said to have lived why wouldn't one, just one person who wrote about history and was alive at the time write about him?

Here are a "few" well know historians who wrote a lot and were alive during the time Jesus was said to have lived that never mentioned a peep about him -

Apollonius Persius
Appian Petronius
Arrian Phaedrus
Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus
Columella Phlegon
Damis Pliny the Elder
Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger
Dion Pruseus Plutarch
Epictetus Pompon Mela
Favorinus Ptolemy
Florus Lucius Quintilian
Hermogones Quintius Curtius
Josephus Seneca
Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus
Juvenal Statius
Lucanus Suetonius
Lucian Tacitus
Lysias Theon of Smyran
Martial Valerius Flaccus
Paterculus Valerius Maximus
Pausanias


Plus, if I'm not mistaken, there is no mention of Jesus in the Roman records either.


Now that is history!

To answer your other question, no, you may be mistaking me for someone else. I was born a Jew and have been on a journey searching my roots.
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#9
SMR, what I am trying to get to is the fact that the Jewish leaders believed Jesus should be put to death and sent Him to the Romans to accomplish that.
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#10
(06-30-2020, 03:01 PM)George wrote: SMR, what I am trying to get to is the fact that the Jewish leaders believed Jesus should be put to death and sent Him to the Romans to accomplish that.

Please define who and what you mean by “the Jewish leaders”.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
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