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What about the prophecies of old testament?
#1
How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.
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#2
Well, first thing I would say is there are no prophecies in the Hebrew bible about Jesus.

Second, we refer to our bible as the Hebrew Bible, not the old testament (there is nothing old about it).

Question - What in your opinion in Isaiah 53:3-12 is is about Jesus?

Why would someone take a piece of a book without looking at the whole picture?
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#3
(06-30-2020, 09:25 PM)Ismq wrote: How the judaism explain the phropecies about jesus?e.g isaiah 53: 3-12.

For 1,000 years the Jews with one voice said Isaiah 53 referred to the Messiah.


Then, they said it referred to Israel.

I have a small book called "What the Rabbis Know about the Messiah."

In it you will find many documented opinions about the Messiah, such as:

The Messiah would be the Suffering Servant of Isaiah.

The Messiah would make final atonement for Jews and Gentiles.

The Messiah would be humiliated and exalted.

The Messiah existed from before the creation of the world.

The Messiah will be Exalted King to reign judgment upon the unjust and to establish His Messianic Kingdom forever.

The Messiah would descend from Abraham.

The Messiah is Shiloh.

The Messiah would be like Moses.

The Messiah would draw all peoples to the worship of God.

The Messiah shall be higher than the ministering angels.

The Messiah shall be more extolled than Moses.

The Messiah would be a priest.  The priestly role would be manifest in Messiah’s work as Intercessor and Redeemer.

The Talmud teaches that, “All prophets prophesied only for the coming of the Messiah.

The Messiah is the son of David.

The Messiah is the son of God.

The eternal throne would be held by Messiah Himself who would establish eternal peace.

The Messiah is greater than David.
The Messiah is God’s first born.
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#4
George,

First of all, I changed your font size as there is no need to make it as large as you had it.

Second, the question was asked about the prophecies of Jesus which are none, so I'm not sure why you made this long post George, it's a little out of character for you.

I'm guessing you are referring to the book written by Douglas Pyle? 

It is not proper to just quote a single line as we then do not know the true content of what was written.

Plus, some of what you wrote is not correct. We never had one voice for 1000 years saying Isaiah 53 refers to Messiah and then changed it to Israel.


So all that you copied from the book cannot be understood properly and should not be used as an answer to the question.
 
I think the question should be answered in context which is what I plan on doing.

In the meantime, you might want to read what Rabbi Schulman writes in great detail about these quotes.

https://judaismsanswer.com/Isaiah53TalmudMidrash.htm

You might find the rest of his website useful in answering your questions as well - https://judaismsanswer.com/
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#5
(07-01-2020, 12:39 AM)searchinmyroots wrote: Well, first thing I would say is there are no prophecies in the Hebrew bible about Jesus.

What do you mean by that?
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#6
(07-01-2020, 09:59 PM)Ismq wrote:
(07-01-2020, 12:39 AM)searchinmyroots wrote: Well, first thing I would say is there are no prophecies in the Hebrew bible about Jesus.

What do you mean by that?

It's a pretty straightforward answer.

There is nothing in the Hebrew bible that is a prophecy about Jesus. Just because you may have read there are (some claim there are 365!) that doesn't mean it's true.

Most of what others call "prophecies" are just types and shadows. They take a verse out of content, change the meaning or even add or subtract to the original verse to make it seem as if it is speaking about Jesus.

Now don't get me wrong, there are many verses and themes that allude to a messiah, but that is a whole different story and certainly not about Jesus.
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#7
Of course some of them are not clear.but there's others that points to jesus. By example in isaiah 53 we can see that: 1-he was rejected(isaiah 53:3) .2-he was silent before his accusers(isaiah 53:7)3-he was crucified with criminals(isaiah 53:12) 4-he was a sacrifice for sin(isaiah 53:5-12).
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#8
(07-02-2020, 07:18 PM)Ismq wrote: Of course some of them are not clear.but there's others that points to jesus. By example in isaiah 53 we can see that: 1-the messiah would be rejected by his own people(isaiah 53:3) .2-the messiah would be silent before his accusers(isaiah 53:7) 3-the messiah would be crucified with criminals(isaiah 53:12) 4-the messiah would be a sacrifice for sin(isaiah 53:5-12).

Thanks for your reply.

I don't see anywhere in Isaiah 53 where the word messiah is used. Can you please show me where you see that?

I don't see where it says the messiah would be a sacrifice for sin.

Verse 5 actually says the servant spoken of was wounded/pained from the sins of others, nothing about dying for the sins of others.

Verse 3 actually says the servant spoken of was despised and rejected by men, I don't see where it says by his own people.

Verse 9 actually uses the word "deaths". That is in the plural. Obviously it is speaking of "people" not a person. And the translations say he made his grave with the wicked and with the rich in his death. That's the opposite of what the Christian bible says where Jesus died with the criminals and and was buried with the rich.


In addition, verse 10 says the servant spoken of will be as a guilt offering. So the servant was guilty of sin. From what I understand, Christian theology teaches Jesus was sinless.

And verse 11 says the servant will justify the many with knowledge. If I'm not mistaken, Christian theology teaches Jesus justifies people who believe in him by his blood and death, nothing about knowledge.

So to sum things up, I don't see anything in this chapter that relates to Jesus or a messiah.

All of this is clear if one understands the Hebrew language that it is written in. Using translations of translations does not give you a true accurate translation.
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#9
I made some mistakes above(i was hurry) but this is what i mean above:1-he was rejected(isaiah 53:3) .2-he was silent before his accusers(isaiah 53:7)3-he was crucified with criminals(isaiah 53:12) 4-he was a sacrifice for sin(isaiah 53:5-12).
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#10
(07-02-2020, 07:50 PM)Ismq wrote: I made some mistakes above(i was hurry) but this is what i mean above:1-he was rejected(isaiah 53:3) .2-he was silent before his accusers(isaiah 53:7)3-he was crucified with criminals(isaiah 53:12) 4-he was a sacrifice for sin(isaiah 53:5-12).


It does not say what you wrote!

Did you read what I wrote?

Please read carefully as I addressed your claims.

I don't know what else to say if you don't understand what the Hebrew bible actually says.

You are being misled by translations of translations.

If that is what you want to believe, that's okay, but it isn't what is actually written.
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