The following warnings occurred:
Warning [2] Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/jaihare/thehebrewcafe.com/forum/inc/languages/english/replyban.lang.php:1) - Line: 1939 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 7.2.34 (Linux)
File Line Function
[PHP]   errorHandler->error
/inc/functions.php 1939 header
/inc/functions.php 2009 my_setcookie
/inc/functions_indicators.php 41 my_set_array_cookie
/showthread.php 665 mark_thread_read




Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
why is judaism better about keeping out the losers?
#1
Sorry to be offensive or biased but I cannot help but notice this trend
I will compare American Protestantism and general Judaism in my neighborhoods (I know there are MANY sects of Jews) not all of course
Lutheranism (in my neighborhood at least)
  • Weaknesss is a virtue

  • Being stupid is a virtue (blessed are the meek)

  • Being poor is a virtue “the root of evil is money”

  • Mostly the dregs of society such as criminals and uneducated hicks addicted to opioids

  • No personal responsibility i.e. “Jebus forgives"

  • Obese with dysfunctional families
Judaism:
  • STRENGTH and overcoming challenges i.e. defeating the Greeks in the Maccabees

  • Education is valuable, use your talents to help your community

  • wealth is valuable to the community and is a tool for GOOD to help others

  • No unrepentant drug addicts (knew a synagogue in my area that banned some screwballs from ever attending service)

  • Doctors, lawyers, chemists and Uni Professors are the main base

  • Swole and trim with successful and large families
Reply
#2
Hello and welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair comparison but much of what you wrote seems to be true, good comparisons.

Christianity thrives on forgiveness.

Another comparison in my opinion -

Christianity teaches you to "listen to the holy spirit".

Judaism teaches to learn from Torah. Of course you can ask G-d for wisdom, but it is left up to us to read, learn and do.

We dive deep into the language to learn. Every paragraph, every verse, every word, every letter is meaningful. From what I see, most Christians don't understand the beauty and deeper meanings of the Hebrew language.
Reply
#3
(08-11-2020, 02:15 AM)myjewishroots2 wrote: Sorry to be offensive or biased......

I have a responsibility as a Jew and as a rabbi to stand against hateful and ignorant stereotypes when leveled at Jews. As a Jew and as a rabbi I have an equal responsibility to stand against hateful and ignorant stereotypes leveled against any other people - whether it be Muslims, Christians, black people,  gay people, Latinos etc.

As a rabbi who knows more Jews in the pews than you probably do, as a rabbi who probably speaks with a variety of rabbis from across the denominational spectrum more often than you do, as a rabbi who has more contact with clergy from other religions probably than you do —- and as a Jew who has interacted with Christians as neighbors, friends, co-workers from my years in secular jobs - There is only one way to describe your post -

It’s what exits a male steer after the steer digests his food.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Reply
#4
(08-11-2020, 12:47 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: From what I see, most Christians don't understand the beauty and deeper meanings of the Hebrew language.

While this is true I’ll let you in on a little secret - neither do most Jews.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Reply
#5
(08-11-2020, 12:47 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair comparison but much of what you wrote seems to be true, good comparisons.

 You disappoint me.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Reply
#6
(08-11-2020, 03:11 PM)RabbiO wrote:
(08-11-2020, 12:47 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: From what I see, most Christians don't understand the beauty and deeper meanings of the Hebrew language.

While this is true I’ll let you in on a little secret - neither do most Jews.

I'm not sure what you mean by "most Jews".

Jews, or Jewish people who are looking to be observant?

From what I've experienced, almost all Torah classes and study of Torah includes deeper meaning of the Hebrew language.
Reply
#7
(08-11-2020, 03:16 PM)RabbiO wrote:
(08-11-2020, 12:47 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: I'm not sure if that is a 100% fair comparison but much of what you wrote seems to be true, good comparisons.

 You disappoint me.

Well after further review, I would change "most" to bullets points 1 and 5.

As for the others, the language used is not appropriate and needs to be changed.

And I agree, we don't want to put down others no matter what their beliefs even if we don't agree.

So I guess in my haste, I neglected to actually read what was written and I'm happy to admit my mistake.
Reply
#8
There is a great deal of scholarship discussing stuff like this. Some of it: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C50&q=dysgenics+birth+control+urbanization&btnG=

Yes, much of Judaism has benefited from a selection effect; thereby increasing the genetic precursors for intelligence every generation. The downside of this are the unusual genetic defects suffered among the Ashkenazim. Why the need for a selection effect? Partly because of all the persecution and diaspora; rabbis and other leaders understood that their community would not survive otherwise. Maybe some of it is just incidental--Hebrew being difficult; Judaism having a culture of literacy.

Some Christians try to imitate Jews and become more exclusive; like elite Calvinists.

The difference between Jews and Gentiles has become especially pronounced due to the industrial revolution, urbanization, and sexual revolution. There is a rural brain drain where the more intelligent are more likely to move to cities--but in the cities they have lower fertility. Cities must constantly draw from smaller communities or immigrants from new countries that have not suffered so much from the negative selection effects, but this can only go on for so long before the next source of human raw material must be found to replace the old ones. The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children; genetically and culturally as well. Civilization burns the candle at both ends. So it isn't just what Jews are doing; it is also that Gentiles are doing the opposite; sacrificing their communities, populations, and genetic inheritance in the name of progress, like Esau who despised his birthright.

Who will survive at the end of this? I imagine some groups like Hutterites and Amish will be left standing unless of course they are done in by genetic drift. They have chosen a separate path that is distinct from those who are elite and those who are very inclusive despite the ill-effects. By raising more children than will continue in their group, there is room for a positive selection effect to develop without shrinking into a very small, very elite sect like some Protestants. If they can fight the elitism Traditionalist Catholics stand to do well also; and without the inbreeding because they accept new followers at a higher rate. So it is correct to affirm that the meek inherit the earth. Meek being a different path than either elitism or ungrounded inclusive behavior that condones wrongdoing.

One earlier positive selection effect was that of Israel under slavery in Egypt and in the wilderness afterwards. Being an underclass that multiples rapidly with oppression from a meritocratic overclass prevents the corrupt from rising to the top. As such it prevents low-intelligent people rising to the top and propagating the leaders of the succeeding generations. It could have continued even longer and helped the Israel's genetic endowment even more had not Pharaoh tried to impose birth control-like measures on them. This would have ruined everything that Israel had gained; as such God needed to relocate them.

Why do some pursue the inclusive path? It is advantageous to the leadership. Mergers between religious groups and ties between countries especially develop within a low-fertility declining demographic situation. Without the One Child Policy, China could have split into dozens of smaller states, one for each ethnic group and language. Instead with low fertility the state was able to label most people as "Han" and reduce the infighting. Religious organizations that merge are often on an improved financial basis. In the US the "universal mandate" of contraception access occurred in the context of an attempt to tie the US down into stronger international commitments and a desire to enhance federal power at the expense of the states' power; lower fertility is supportive of these ends.

In contrast, Hutterites are constantly under pressure to split each commune to reduce competition for the relatively few leadership positions and top roles. If a commune doesn't split each generation, it becomes overpopulated and too many men end up in a "dead end job". Having a naturally expanding population is a lot of work. If the leadership fails you get infighting and a greater risk of schism and civil war. One group of Protestants in the US that have rapidly expanded and failed prevent schism and infighting are the Laedestantians, also called the Apostolic Lutherans. Had they contracepted, competition for leadership would have been much lower and maybe there would just be one denomination of them in the US today; although it would have been many times smaller than the combined population of all present Apostolic Lutheran denominations.

Also think of Moses; his job was never easy. Most political and religious leaders don't want to work as hard as Moses did.
Reply
#9
Maybe the times are changing too rapidly for people to cope gracefully, and Protestant Christianity in America is going through rapid change, with social media and modern technology, ect.   I thought the OP gave a rough overview of a religion he doesn't fully understand nor the people. Stereotyping creates blind spots.  It is the love of money that is the root of evil according to Christianity, not "the root of evil is money."  There is a difference.  Religion can become toxic for some, and on forgiveness there are people who remain in abusive situations by following what is written in Matthew, to a letter,  where Jesus said to forgive 70 times 7. If not, neither will Jesus forgive them.  It would be better to become an atheist, imo.  

This is a 12 minute video of a 109 year old WW2 veteran, who shares his secrets to a long life, and his faith in God.  He has since been deceased, 2018,  at the age of 112.  Mr. Richard Overton.  I really admire his perspective and attitude towards life. So much one could have learned and benefited from being around his example of what a Christian is to be.  As developed in character as he had,  I got the feel he never took "religion" too seriously. A remarkable human being that enjoyed his cigars, whiskey, canned soup and believed in treating people right.  He kept religion simple and that was part of his wisdom and secret.  

https://video.nationalgeographic.com/vid...f5a2ce0000
Reply
#10
(08-13-2020, 01:15 AM)Dana wrote: Maybe the times are changing too rapidly for people to cope gracefully

Yes, I've heard about the Flynn effect where everyone gets more intelligent because of environmental factors like less disease and better education. Then I wonder why don't I see the Flynn effect much in action? I wonder if there is some sort of equilibrium, like, "Life is 10% more complicated, but people are 5% more intelligent" and then we fall behind. Or maybe we are swapping one kind of intelligence for another such that it isn't coming out when we need it.

I've been to China and admire a number of aspects about how things are there. Supposedly the Chinese are more intelligent than Americans from tests, and the genetics say they are predisposed to higher intelligence than people of European descent. But being in urban, modern China is more complicated than living in urban, modern America. Plus learning to read Chinese is really hard and saps their intelligence.

In Taiwan, the government at times has confiscated books written in the Latin alphabet. The basis for this was to prevent the culture from being debased. They are keeping it complicated.

In Japan, one group decided they wanted to live in a Hutterite commune, so they did. They are keeping it simple.

(08-13-2020, 01:15 AM)Dana wrote: on forgiveness there are people who remain in abusive situations

I have seen this and have been pressured along this general line. The injunction about forgiveness makes the most sense in a context with a strong external authority to impose discipline and limits. This frees up the average person to be forgiving. In modern life it is much easier for forgiving to become condoning. One Protestant pastor said that Simeon and Levi did the right thing. I was shocked by that. Most say they were excessive.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)