The following warnings occurred:
Warning [2] Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/jaihare/thehebrewcafe.com/forum/inc/languages/english/replyban.lang.php:1) - Line: 1939 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 7.2.34 (Linux)
File Line Function
[PHP]   errorHandler->error
/inc/functions.php 1939 header
/inc/functions.php 2009 my_setcookie
/inc/functions_indicators.php 41 my_set_array_cookie
/showthread.php 665 mark_thread_read
Warning [2] Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/jaihare/thehebrewcafe.com/forum/inc/languages/english/replyban.lang.php:1) - Line: 1939 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 7.2.34 (Linux)
File Line Function
[PHP]   errorHandler->error
/inc/functions.php 1939 header
/inc/functions.php 2009 my_setcookie
/inc/functions_indicators.php 255 my_set_array_cookie
/inc/functions_indicators.php 47 mark_forum_read
/showthread.php 665 mark_thread_read




Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Luke 6:41-42
#1
Is there anything written within Judaism on par to Luke 6:42 from the New Testament? 

How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Reply
#2
Good questions Dana.

I found this online, just not sure of the accuracy -

From the Babylonian Talmud in Arakhin 16b -

"If someone said to him, ‘Remove the chip of wood from between your eyes’, he would tell him: ‘Remove the beam from between your eyes’!”

and these -

  • Let us pick off the straws from ourselves before we do it to others. (y.Ta’anit 65a)
  • Do not taunt your neighbor with a blemish you yourself have. (b.Bava Metzia 63b)
  • Let us first correct ourselves; then let us correct others. (Lamentations Rabbah 3:40)

One would have to read into them further to get the context of how it is used, but they seem to convey a similar message, although I could be 100% wrong!
Reply
#3
Thanks Searchinmyroots. There is more variation for the verse, that of introspection, within Judaism it seems.
Reply
#4
Yes, it does seem that way.

As with other things in the Christian bible, I wonder if they took some of these teachings from the Sages and turned it into something for their own sake.

As you know, many things said at the Sermon of the Mount were actually said earlier in Judaism.

That's why we have that saying -

If it's new, it's not good.

If it's good, it's not new.

Or something to that affect!
Reply
#5
SMR,

That's just right! Great call-up of the various sources. It's really the case that the NT doesn't have much in the way of originality.

Richard Carrier has this interesting bit to add from his On the Historicity of Jesus (chapter 10):

Among the texts recovered from the fourth-century stash of codices recovered from Nag Hammadi, Egypt, are two in particular: Eugnostos the Blessed and the Wisdom of Jesus Christ. The peculiar thing about these two texts is that they pull away the curtain and reveal a key pathway by which Jesus tradition was invented.
   Eugnostos is a fake epistle written by what is almost certainly a fake person (‘Eugnostos’ means ‘well knowing’, an obviously fictional name), possibly composed before Christianity, as it contains no material distinctive of Christianity, but appears to outline an esoteric doctrine of Jewish theology concerning the firstborn celestial Son of God, called the Savior and Son of Man (see Elements 39 to 41). The Wisdom of Jesus Christ then takes direct quotations from the epistle and puts them on the lips of Jesus, and expands on them, to fabricate a post-resurrection narrative scene with dialogue between Jesus and his disciples. So here we see whole sayings of Jesus being invented by fabricating a historical conversation (a Gospel-style narrative), borrowing things said by Eugnostos and representing them as things said by Jesus in conversation with his disciples. This could be how much of the canonical Gospels were composed: things said by other people, in other texts, being ‘lifted’ and adapted and placed on the lips of Jesus. Certainly these two texts prove this was being done. And we have no a priori reason to believe this isn’t how it was always done.

The documents found there show that they were literally copying statements of Eugnostos and writing them in another document and making them into Jesus statements. It seems to be one of the modi operandi that those who composed the Gospels used. They took popular statements and placed them in the mouth of Jesus. These statements were not original to him, though.
Reply
#6
(02-21-2021, 12:41 AM)searchinmyroots wrote:
  • Let us pick off the straws from ourselves before we do it to others. (y.Ta’anit 65a)
  • Do not taunt your neighbor with a blemish you yourself have. (b.Bava Metzia 63b)
  • Let us first correct ourselves; then let us correct others. (Lamentations Rabbah 3:40)

I would love to hear more jewish wisdom please.
Reply
#7
(02-21-2021, 07:28 PM)Blue Bird wrote:
(02-21-2021, 12:41 AM)searchinmyroots wrote:
  • Let us pick off the straws from ourselves before we do it to others. (y.Ta’anit 65a)
  • Do not taunt your neighbor with a blemish you yourself have. (b.Bava Metzia 63b)
  • Let us first correct ourselves; then let us correct others. (Lamentations Rabbah 3:40)

I would love to hear more jewish wisdom please.

It's readily available and has been for thousands of years!

Perkei Avot (Ethihcs of Our Fathers) is a very common one. But just reading it on your own may make it difficult to understand as the way things were written back then may seem a little cryptic (the way the language was used was much different).
Reply
#8
(02-21-2021, 06:17 PM)Jason wrote: SMR,

That's just right! Great call-up of the various sources. It's really the case that the NT doesn't have much in the way of originality.

Richard Carrier has this interesting bit to add from his On the Historicity of Jesus (chapter 10):

Among the texts recovered from the fourth-century stash of codices recovered from Nag Hammadi, Egypt, are two in particular: Eugnostos the Blessed and the Wisdom of Jesus Christ. The peculiar thing about these two texts is that they pull away the curtain and reveal a key pathway by which Jesus tradition was invented.
   Eugnostos is a fake epistle written by what is almost certainly a fake person (‘Eugnostos’ means ‘well knowing’, an obviously fictional name), possibly composed before Christianity, as it contains no material distinctive of Christianity, but appears to outline an esoteric doctrine of Jewish theology concerning the firstborn celestial Son of God, called the Savior and Son of Man (see Elements 39 to 41). The Wisdom of Jesus Christ then takes direct quotations from the epistle and puts them on the lips of Jesus, and expands on them, to fabricate a post-resurrection narrative scene with dialogue between Jesus and his disciples. So here we see whole sayings of Jesus being invented by fabricating a historical conversation (a Gospel-style narrative), borrowing things said by Eugnostos and representing them as things said by Jesus in conversation with his disciples. This could be how much of the canonical Gospels were composed: things said by other people, in other texts, being ‘lifted’ and adapted and placed on the lips of Jesus. Certainly these two texts prove this was being done. And we have no a priori reason to believe this isn’t how it was always done.

The documents found there show that they were literally copying statements of Eugnostos and writing them in another document and making them into Jesus statements. It seems to be one of the modi operandi that those who composed the Gospels used. They took popular statements and placed them in the mouth of Jesus. These statements were not original to him, though.

Well, why am I not surprised!

So it looks like a lot was copied to some extent, sometimes twisting the intended meaning, while adding in a few things of their own to make it look authentic.
Reply
#9
(02-21-2021, 03:57 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: As with other things in the Christian bible, I wonder if they took some of these teachings from the Sages and turned it into something for their own sake.

You seem to be operating on the assumption that Jews did not write most of Christian scripture.
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Reply
#10
(02-21-2021, 09:27 PM)RabbiO wrote:
(02-21-2021, 03:57 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: As with other things in the Christian bible, I wonder if they took some of these teachings from the Sages and turned it into something for their own sake.

You seem to be operating on the assumption that Jews did not write most of Christian scripture.

Well, not really.

I was trying to be nice! Big Grin
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)