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What is idolatry?
#1
Worshiping statues? Nature? Ascribing power to a person or thing other than G-d?
What's your definition of idolatry? How do you prevent it?
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#2
There is quite a remarkable section from Prager's Exodus book covering the concept of false gods and idolatry. Chapter 20 is a long essay. But to quote what I think is the core of idolatry from the chapter.

 "When anything is made an end in itself, rather than as a means to G-d and goodness (as defined, most especially, by the Ten Commandments), it is a false god...Therefore, in order for a thing or an idea to truly be a false god, people must not only make it an end in itself, they must believe it is a worthy and noble thing to live for. Genuine false gods are therefore often beautiful things people come to venerate as ends in and of themselves-things such as education, art, and even love and religion."
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#3
(05-27-2019, 02:41 PM)Dana Wrote: There is quite a remarkable section from Prager's Exodus book covering the concept of false gods and idolatry. Chapter 20 is a long essay. But to quote what I think is the core of idolatry from the chapter.

 "When anything is made an end in itself, rather than as a means to G-d and goodness (as defined, most especially, by the Ten Commandments), it is a false god...Therefore, in order for a thing or an idea to truly be a false god, people must not only make it an end in itself, they must believe it is a worthy and noble thing to live for. Genuine false gods are therefore often beautiful things people come to venerate as ends in and of themselves-things such as education, art, and even love and religion."

I think that is a pretty good definition.

One can make anything a "false god". It's okay to have a passion for something, but if it consumes your life too much, it probably isn't too healthy.

Then again, there are those who dedicate their whole lives to certain things and can help make the world a better place by doing so.

Good question with a not so definitive answer!
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#4
I like it. Pretty succinct and right to the point. I think that that's a very important thing to keep in mind. Even the concepts of HaShem that we hold in our hearts can be idolatrous if we make the mistake of thinking that He is a match for our own ideation when he is in reality so far beyond that. I think a lot of people fall into that trap without even realising it and it can lead to horrors. It reminds me of a quote by Susan B. Anthony:

Quote:The religious persecution of the ages has been done under what was claimed to be the command of God. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their own desires.

Idolatry is a very sticky thing, and we always have to take care to judge ourselves.
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#5
Great comment Jude!
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#6
Any physical thing (or any angel) that usurps the sovereignty of HASHEM is considered idolatry. For example, if you think a statue, angel, or human has the full powers of HASHEM and is therefore above or equal to HASHEM, it is considered idolatry. You can lay prostrate before the messiah all day long (this is a typical form of obeisance shown to monarchs), but as long as you know in the back of your mind that the messiah is simply the viceroy of HASHEM and that HASHEM is truly the King of Kings, then that prostration is not considered worship.

I can see how people may be tempted to worship the messiah as G-d because of the very strange verse of Jeremiah 23:6... but the true messiah--who is humble before G-d--will remind everyone that he is not HASHEM and will therefore never accept glory that is reserved for HASHEM.

Jesus broke this rule, which is why we don't consider him to be a true messiah, but instead a corrupted and false messiah.
"Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
Isaiah 1:17
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#7
@James the Servant

Well, I mean, there are more reasons than that to suggest that he isn't the Messiah that I think are obvious to even Christians.

But more to your point: Jesus never claimed to be HaShem while he was alive. In fact, in the Gospel of Matthew, he explicitly denies it. The only Gospel which states that he claimed to be HaShem is the Gospel of John and, while all the Gospels are historically unreliable, John--even in the era in which it was written--was known for being completely unreliable.
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#8
(06-27-2019, 10:50 PM)Jude86 Wrote: @James the Servant

Well, I mean, there are more reasons than that to suggest that he isn't the Messiah that I think are obvious to even Christians.

But more to your point: Jesus never claimed to be HaShem while he was alive. In fact, in the Gospel of Matthew, he explicitly denies it. The only Gospel which states that he claimed to be HaShem is the Gospel of John and, while all the Gospels are historically unreliable, John--even in the era in which it was written--was known for being completely unreliable.
Christians are certainly confused, that is true.
"Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
Isaiah 1:17
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#9
(06-28-2019, 12:49 AM)James the Servant Wrote:
(06-27-2019, 10:50 PM)Jude86 Wrote: @James the Servant

Well, I mean, there are more reasons than that to suggest that he isn't the Messiah that I think are obvious to even Christians.

But more to your point: Jesus never claimed to be HaShem while he was alive. In fact, in the Gospel of Matthew, he explicitly denies it. The only Gospel which states that he claimed to be HaShem is the Gospel of John and, while all the Gospels are historically unreliable, John--even in the era in which it was written--was known for being completely unreliable.
Christians are certainly confused, that is true.

I'm not sure if it is that they are confused as much as it may be their doctrine seems confusing.
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#10
(06-28-2019, 02:07 AM)searchinmyroots Wrote: I'm not sure if it is that they are confused as much as it may be their doctrine seems confusing.

If they're doctrine is confusing, and they believe in that doctrine, then they are confused. Tongue
"Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
Isaiah 1:17
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