Offended as a logical person.

[Linde]

For Yeshua to be the christian messias it is necessary that there was a Yeshua which fits the description in the new testament.
Now see this website.

I hope you know that Jews are not interested in anything you Christians call the new testament.  I would be as excited to read something about Buddha, or Mohamed!

[ctjacobs]

For Yeshua to be the christian messias it is necessary that there was a Yeshua which fits the description in the new testament.
Now see this website.

I hope you know that Jews are not interested in anything you Christians call the new testament.  I would be as excited to read something about Buddha, or Mohamed!

You missed my point entirely.

[searchinmyroots]

My answer is short and to the point -

By reading and understanding what is written in the Hebrew bible.

Well, that is my point.  If the priests could not partake of the sacrifice if it's blood was brought into the sanctuary (as in day of Atonement) but had to to burn it outside the camp isn't it logical that Yeshua is Messiah since he suffered outside the camp (city) and a follower of him CAN partake of this sacrifice, in-other-words, get the atonement inside of themselves?

What is logical in my point of view is what the Hebrew bible alludes to as a coming messiah, not what "may seem logical".

Do you think it was just an animal sacrifice that brought atonement?

Have you read what other parts of the Hebrew bible say in reference to that?

Was Jesus burned outside the camp?

[veil23]

@veil23 -

For starters, if you don’t mind my asking, just how much do you actually know about Judaism - as it was, as it is?

I don't mind you asking.  I am fairly-well (maybe a little more than fairly-well) versed in the Old Testament.  I would love to discuss it from Adam to Abraham on through the captivity and return and then unto the time of Jesus (I hope it is ok I call him that .    As for the Oral Torah -not so much.
Things passed down orally can be like that commercial I saw about "Oreo Caksters".  By the time the news that "Bobby" had one had passed through the whole lunch room the last kid said: "Bobby has a new chest hair?"  As for modern Judaism I know you still celebrate Passover and some of what I mean about the 'logic of Yeshua as messiah' comes from Passover.

[veil23]

My answer is short and to the point -

By reading and understanding what is written in the Hebrew bible.

Well, that is my point.  If the priests could not partake of the sacrifice if it's blood was brought into the sanctuary (as in day of Atonement) but had to to burn it outside the camp isn't it logical that Yeshua is Messiah since he suffered outside the camp (city) and a follower of him CAN partake of this sacrifice, in-other-words, get the atonement inside of themselves?

What is logical in my point of view is what the Hebrew bible alludes to as a coming messiah, not what "may seem logical".

Do you think it was just an animal sacrifice that brought atonement?

Have you read what other parts of the Hebrew bible say in reference to that?

Was Jesus burned outside the camp?

He suffered outside the gate of Jerusalem, outside the temple.  He was burnt in Hell (as King David prophesied).  The passover was to be roasted symbolizing the same. And not a bone was broken of him (or the lamb) as per Moses' instructions.  To me this is a logical connection.  I can give chapter and verse for everything if you need me to.  What else brought atonement (besides the scapegoat)?  As for what other parts of the Hebrew bible say in reference to the priests not being allowed to eat if blood brought into sanctuary I can connect to it the vow and thank offerings that could be eaten (so as to get atonement that the priests could not get because they were not allowed to eat of it).

[veil23]

Because this person does not meet the requirements our belief tells us the Messiah must meet!

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/art...e-criteria

I am a very secular Jew, but I am a Jew and don't want to be a Christian.  We rejected this idea of the Christian Messiah for about 2000 years long by now, and you can be sure that our scholars looked into any evidence there was, to establish that this is not the Messiah we are waiting for!

I will check out that link before we discuss any further..I hope you are up for a little more..

[veil23]

@veil23 -

For starters, if you don’t mind my asking, just how much do you actually know about Judaism - as it was, as it is?

Sorry, I may have answered this earlier without realizing you were addressing someone else! I am new here!

[searchinmyroots]

My answer is short and to the point -

By reading and understanding what is written in the Hebrew bible.

Well, that is my point.  If the priests could not partake of the sacrifice if it's blood was brought into the sanctuary (as in day of Atonement) but had to to burn it outside the camp isn't it logical that Yeshua is Messiah since he suffered outside the camp (city) and a follower of him CAN partake of this sacrifice, in-other-words, get the atonement inside of themselves?

What is logical in my point of view is what the Hebrew bible alludes to as a coming messiah, not what "may seem logical".

Do you think it was just an animal sacrifice that brought atonement?

Have you read what other parts of the Hebrew bible say in reference to that?

Was Jesus burned outside the camp?

He suffered outside the gate of Jerusalem, outside the temple.  He was burnt in Hell (as King David prophesied).  The passover was to be roasted symbolizing the same. And not a bone was broken of him (or the lamb) as per Moses' instructions.  To me this is a logical connection.  I can give chapter and verse for everything if you need me to.  What else brought atonement (besides the scapegoat)?  As for what other parts of the Hebrew bible say in reference to the priests not being allowed to eat if blood brought into sanctuary I can connect to it the vow and thank offerings that could be eaten (so as to get atonement that the priests could not get because they were not allowed to eat of it).

So it looks like you are just going to throw things at us that really don't apply and I don't really want to address everything that has already been addressed for thousands of years.

Let's get to the real point.

What does the Hebrew bible say about what would seem to be a coming messiah?

How will we know he has arrived?

No types and shadows please.

[veil23]

My answer is short and to the point -

By reading and understanding what is written in the Hebrew bible.

Well, that is my point.  If the priests could not partake of the sacrifice if it's blood was brought into the sanctuary (as in day of Atonement) but had to to burn it outside the camp isn't it logical that Yeshua is Messiah since he suffered outside the camp (city) and a follower of him CAN partake of this sacrifice, in-other-words, get the atonement inside of themselves?

What is logical in my point of view is what the Hebrew bible alludes to as a coming messiah, not what "may seem logical".

Do you think it was just an animal sacrifice that brought atonement?

Have you read what other parts of the Hebrew bible say in reference to that?

Was Jesus burned outside the camp?

He suffered outside the gate of Jerusalem, outside the temple.  He was burnt in Hell (as King David prophesied).  The passover was to be roasted symbolizing the same. And not a bone was broken of him (or the lamb) as per Moses' instructions.  To me this is a logical connection.  I can give chapter and verse for everything if you need me to.  What else brought atonement (besides the scapegoat)?  As for what other parts of the Hebrew bible say in reference to the priests not being allowed to eat if blood brought into sanctuary I can connect to it the vow and thank offerings that could be eaten (so as to get atonement that the priests could not get because they were not allowed to eat of it).

So it looks like you are just going to throw things at us that really don't apply and I don't really want to address everything that has already been addressed for thousands of years.

Let's get to the real point.

What does the Hebrew bible say about what would seem to be a coming messiah?

How will we know he has arrived?

No types and shadows please.

I started a new thread: God's election is sovereign.  In it I begin to answer your question.  And you still have not given suitable reply concerning the priests not being able partake of the sacrifices if the blood is brought into the sanctuary (day of Atonement).  And i realize peace offerings are not burnt or sin offerings but the "DNA" of all these offerings is expiatory.  And as for type and shadow you must agree the blood of animals is type and shadow.
One only walks in the shadow until the body making the shadow shows up.

[veil23]

Because this person does not meet the requirements our belief tells us the Messiah must meet!

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/art...e-criteria

I am a very secular Jew, but I am a Jew and don't want to be a Christian.  We rejected this idea of the Christian Messiah for about 2000 years long by now, and you can be sure that our scholars looked into any evidence there was, to establish that this is not the Messiah we are waiting for!

I will check out that link before we discuss any further..I hope you are up for a little more..

Hey Linde, thanks for the website.  I read 5 or 6 articles.  I have to ask -Why secular as opposed to observant??