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why is judaism better about keeping out the losers?
#11
I have spent the last year trying to convert after researching world religions and coming to the conclusion Judaism is the only verifiably accurate religion. I later found out our family secret that we came from indians was not true and a search found several Jewish families fleeing from the rhineland to America. I have been flat rejected by ultra orthodox communities even though i am Torah observant. Sadly only the reform have embraced us and i don't agree with their belief set. Not really sure what to do.
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#12
Welcome to the forum!

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

Yes, a journey in Judaism takes patience and perseverance, so don't give up if this is what you are 100% sure you want to do.

A local Chabad house might be able to assist and connect you with someone.
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#13
(09-27-2020, 07:19 PM)searchinmyroots wrote: Welcome to the forum!

Just to let you know, the first 3 posts are moderated to help keep out spam and bots.

Yes, a journey in Judaism takes patience and perseverance, so don't give up if this is what you are 100% sure you want to do.

A local Chabad house might be able to assist and connect you with someone.

Can you tell me more about Chabad? There are some center's nearby but i do not know anything about them.
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#14
(09-27-2020, 04:21 PM)MatthewColorado wrote: I have spent the last year trying to convert after researching world religions and coming to the conclusion Judaism is the only verifiably accurate religion. I later found out our family secret that we came from indians was not true and a search found several Jewish families fleeing from the rhineland to America. I have been flat rejected by ultra orthodox communities even though i am Torah observant. Sadly only the reform have embraced us and i don't agree with their belief set. Not really sure what to do.

You should be aware that there is a HUGE number of people who show up and tell Jews that they somehow magically discovered that they have Jewish roots and they then want to be converted or whatever. It's a story we hear all the time, and it often comes from people who actually believe in Jesus but refuse to call it what it is. They say that he's "Yeshua" or "Yahshua" or something else, and they are trying to hide the fact that they are heterodox while trying to demonstrate that they are orthoprax. You cannot expect anyone to accept your story when we have heard it over and over again, and it's nine times out of ten a lie.
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#15
(09-28-2020, 11:14 AM)Jason wrote:
(09-27-2020, 04:21 PM)MatthewColorado wrote: I have spent the last year trying to convert after researching world religions and coming to the conclusion Judaism is the only verifiably accurate religion. I later found out our family secret that we came from indians was not true and a search found several Jewish families fleeing from the rhineland to America. I have been flat rejected by ultra orthodox communities even though i am Torah observant. Sadly only the reform have embraced us and i don't agree with their belief set. Not really sure what to do.

You should be aware that there is a HUGE number of people who show up and tell Jews that they somehow magically discovered that they have Jewish roots and they then want to be converted or whatever. It's a story we hear all the time, and it often comes from people who actually believe in Jesus but refuse to call it what it is. They say that he's "Yeshua" or "Yahshua" or something else, and they are trying to hide the fact that they are heterodox while trying to demonstrate that they are orthoprax. You cannot expect anyone to accept your story when we have heard it over and over again, and it's nine times out of ten a lie.
I understand what you are saying is true because of christians desire to convert everyone and how they will lie and sneak if it helps them to "spread their gospel" i do get that. More than family i believe in Torah that we have been given the choice between life and good and death and evil and we should choose life that we may live. The Torah says God is not a man that he can lie nor the son of man so that is about as clear as it gets to someone researched and read like myself. Does the Torah not say if someone comes performing wonders and miracles but then tries to lead you astray from what you have been taught to not go with him. 

If people do not read and understand that for themselves, and have the ability to rightly question people in their belief and understanding, then i don't know what to say that does not make sense to me. I can clearly articulate and defend anything i believe in or say otherwise i would not say it.

So fact number one i do not have to do anything but be Torah observant do be Jewish for example Ruth, Your God will be My God your people will be my people. I include with that Rabbinical law and culture and everything else. There is literally an ex christian cult member directing the nearest synagogue so i understand but it makes me furious when genuine people like me are kicked to the curb but people like that are somehow high ranking in the liberal arm of Judaism (this case is a conservative shul).

Besides that fact yes i do have family that traces to Metz from Lorraine France, Schoen from Antwerp Belgium, and Meier from the palatinate at the rhine river. Add in names that are almost purely rom Torah that is enough for me, again although it is not necessary to have family to be Jewish. 

So what am i supposed to say then? I can tell you what i believe, why, why christianity is wrong, where i came from, and what i plan to do. Teshuvah, Mitzvot, Tikkun Olam. 

If there is some secret to get past people thinking i am a hidden jesus lover or something let me know because personally i am anti-christian because of things done to me and my family by christians so someone associating me with that bunch for absolutely no reason is extremely aggravating.

Thanks for your time Shalom.
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#16
There's no secret to it. You just need to involve yourself in a community and let them know your thoughts clearly.

I mean, as long as you're honest and reasonable, you shouldn't encounter problems - except if you want to convert to Orthodoxy and are not ready to move into the community. You cannot be converted if you don't live within the community. You realize that, since you experienced it.

Is the Reform shul that you've been studying in a place where you are challenged to think and to question? Do they have education classes and intro to Judaism classes?
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#17
(09-29-2020, 01:36 AM)Jason wrote: There's no secret to it. You just need to involve yourself in a community and let them know your thoughts clearly.

I mean, as long as you're honest and reasonable, you shouldn't encounter problems - except if you want to convert to Orthodoxy and are not ready to move into the community. You cannot be converted if you don't live within the community. You realize that, since you experienced it.

Is the Reform shul that you've been studying in a place where you are challenged to think and to question? Do they have education classes and intro to Judaism classes?

I have had some people treat me very well after talking to me for a few moments and asking why i am interested. The "Orthodox" in my community literally only asked family questions and referred me to other Rabbi's that then referred me back to them. They never once asked me about my interest in Torah, my thoughts on mitzvot, nothing at all.  The reform community was extremely inviting and i do appreciate that and acknowledge them for it. In particular the Rabbi i am currently sponsored by is Reform although i don't fully understand why other than he says the local orthodox individually tear their toilet paper sheets before the sabbath to not break any prohibitions.

My sponsoring Rabbi does keep kosher, is Sabbath observant, does believe in at least most of the Oral Torah and Rabbinic law overall. The Intro to Judaism classes i am taking do include several Rabbi's some whom are very good and more traditional, but more highly liberal highly reform than anything. It is just kind of annoying someone taking out Hashem from the Torah and then trying to teach it to me like a purely historical liberal college course from California. Some are worse than others honestly but the class is like 98% reform and you can tell it is ingrained in the entire community and so you either have really liberal communities that treat the Torah very loosely and carelessly, or Ultra Orthodox that only care if your mother or father was born a Jew, they all dress exactly the same, do not drive, women do not leave the homes, and no one communicates with people outside of their community unless the Rabbi has approved it. Generally from my education those are all signs of a cult so i am very confused with this community.

Can you tell me if most Orthodox are like that? Because generally i have heard Rabbi Tovia Signer say how embarrassed he is of the Ultra Orthodox and how they are a tiny representation of Judaism and generally he doesn't even pay them any attention. I do not know that from first hand knowledge so i only know what i hear and the one area i have physically seen myself.
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#18
No, most Orthodox people are not like the Ultra-Orthodox. I think Rabbi Singer represents how most people feel - that it's a shame that the Ultra-Orthodox have such a loud voice when they represent such a minority, and that they oppose modernization generally. Sadly, it is the Ultra-Orthodox community in Israel that spreads COVID-19 so freely. They ignore congregation limitations, don't wear masks, and don't observe social distancing at all. It's frustrating.
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#19
I wouldn't oppose learning the Torah from a historical perspective. Seek truth, no matter where it pops up.
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#20
(09-29-2020, 01:40 PM)Jason wrote: No, most Orthodox people are not like the Ultra-Orthodox. I think Rabbi Singer represents how most people feel - that it's a shame that the Ultra-Orthodox have such a loud voice when they represent such a minority, and that they oppose modernization generally. Sadly, it is the Ultra-Orthodox community in Israel that spreads COVID-19 so freely. They ignore congregation limitations, don't wear masks, and don't observe social distancing at all. It's frustrating.

Thank you for clarifying that. The people around here make it seem like that group here is representative of Orthodox as a whole and honestly it is no wonder why 98% of all the students ion my class are currently reform if that is what they know. I think we are going to seriously look into communities that fit our belief's better. We have moved a lot recently and moving to another state is a lot to think about but i guess there isn't much choice.

Do you have any well accepted information about reform conservative etc? I have heard the Orthodox have a stranglehold on one end that they shouldn't, and on the other end i heard anything other than Orthodoxy isn't even really religious Judaism. Of course being new to the culture and community i don't really understand this all so well other than reform don't typically care to keep kosher and generally don't see the Torah as divine but purely man-made. I have tried talking to conservative around here and not really got an answer i can articulate. 

I certainly understand how the Reform movement started with the enlightenment and wanting less control by the Rabbi's and more autonomy. I do not understand the differences in thought and practice of Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox, that has been my biggest question for some reason i have trouble getting solid answers to that people don't just get mad and say well "Reformers aren't Jews" or "Orthodox are living in the past" , I don't want people to tell me the answers i just want the information to compare it for myself.

Thanks a lot for for time and responses it is far more helpful than you realize. I moved from one place with a heavy christian cult like ultra-conservative perspective where they don't want anything to ever change and was so happy to leave. Then i got here and it is the polar opposite here there is a cult like mindset that anything traditional or conservative is demonic in some way and holding back peace and prosperity. I was told it was neutral but someone lied about that. So because of that air here it makes me extremely uncomfortable so say what i actually think or feel for fear of retaliation. I say that after being viciously assaulted for wearing a Kippah in public so i really do mean that.

Shalom
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