(06-27-2022, 05:43 PM)Dana Wrote: (02-14-2022, 11:10 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: Why do you think there will be inevitable suffering from coming into being? I realize this might be the case in some instances but in others I don't think they see the suffering as much or at least they look at it a different way.
I think the years 2020-2022 have been transitional years for me. I've given consideration to the philosophy of Antinatalism. Much reading and time has been spent thinking about it.
It is true, faith in G-d helps anchor us by providing meaning and purpose, giving us endurance during the rough times. The inspiration of believing in immortality shields us from viewing reality full on, and with our innate optimistic bias the glass appears half full so we can better be able to look on the bright side.
Covid, wars, disease, automobile accidents, job loss, homelessness and loss of loveed ones are only a few forms of suffering while mentally, many cope with anxiety and stress using alcohol and drugs. Not everyone will go through all of these equally but in the aggregate most will in one form or another.
I won't encourage my own grandkids to have children which is a break from my usual way of thinking towards faith and a positive outlook. Although if they choose too I'll be supportive.
Ethics matter and for me I've found Jewish ethics to be one of the finest, as a higher standard of behaving. Procreation however, (in my book) is immoral and I don't believe this to be in conflict.
Understanding evolution a little better has made me realize more compassion for people as well as the lower animals. We have similar drives but the animals just can't contemplate their experiences. Nature drives them. Veganism is now a very real lifestyle I'm working towards.
I took 'forever' to answer your question Searching because it is not an easy one to answer. Nonetheless, very relevant.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for your reply Dana. Never too late as this isn't an easy topic!
So yes, having something to believe in can give some people meaning, purpose and a way to get through the hard times. And we all could use some of that in my opinion.
And yes, many of the sufferings you listed all of us will go thorough at one time or another in our lives. It isn't anything new just the same thing in different forms at different times (instead of Covid there were much worse things out there like the Black Plague for instance and wars have been going on for who knows how long).
But I see a pattern of renewal, where people get "through" it one way or another, build and move forward. No, not all will and yes many will suffer.
I think that is something that is "built" into us naturally if we choose to use it. We find ways to overcome, to move on, to adapt and deal with the negatives that are thrown at us.
To me, and I know this may sound biblical, life is built on love. Love of ourselves, love of others, love of the animals, love of the planet and of everything that was created. We need to lookout for others whether it be people or things. We need to share our individual strengths to help with our weaknesses. We need to love our surroundings and see the beauty of it all and be in awe of it.
Life has drastically changed not just over the last 2 years but also in my opinion more so in the last 100. We have made great strides in adding years to our lives, but we may be missing what I believe to be another important part - Adding life to our years.
Again, these are all just my thoughts and I know and realize every person has their own way of thinking about life and what it means and has to offer.
I think there is a lot of goodness and things to fulfill our lives out there, we just need to make the most of it all.
So how does this fit in with the topic of bringing children into this world?
I believe it is a natural order, that it is meant to be. Things will happen that we will not like and can find no reason as to "why". But that to me is also part of the natural order, that things have to happen in order to move on. A forest must burn its overload of debris in order to bring new life. And as hard as that may seem, especially in relation to people, for some reason it needs to be done.
Bringing children into this world is a personal choice. A choice that will probably depend on how one see's things and how they think their children can survive.
It's definitely not an easy decision.
We can talk about veganism as well! As you may or may not know, I've been plant based for over 10 years now, mostly for health reasons but I've come to realize it is a win for the animals and the planet as well!
Thanks for the conversation Dana!