04-10-2020, 02:22 AM
(04-09-2020, 10:36 AM)Peergint Wrote: This suggests that we can save ourselves, ([b]Moderators Add - According to Christianity) [/b]Can I ask then, do you believe you can save yourselves?
What does the Passover Lamb have to do with sin?
Exodus 12:5. Your lamb shall be without blemish... In Christianity this means without sin.
Then God Himself walked through the two halves. This meant that God made the covenant, but Jacob didn't. (Moderator Note - Can you please show us a reference to this in the Hebrew bible?) My mistake, this was Abram. Genesis 15:17-18. Now it came to pass that the sun had set, and it was dark, and behold, a smoking furnace and a fire brand, which passed between these parts. יזוַיְהִ֤י הַשֶּׁ֨מֶשׁ֙ בָּ֔אָה וַֽעֲלָטָ֖ה הָיָ֑ה וְהִנֵּ֨ה תַנּ֤וּר עָשָׁן֙ וְלַפִּ֣יד אֵ֔שׁ אֲשֶׁ֣ר עָבַ֔ר בֵּ֖ין הַגְּזָרִ֥ים הָאֵֽלֶּה:
On that day, the Lord formed a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river. יחבַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֗וּא כָּרַ֧ת יְהֹוָ֛ה אֶת־אַבְרָ֖ם בְּרִ֣ית לֵאמֹ֑ר לְזַרְעֲךָ֗ נָתַ֨תִּי֙ אֶת־הָאָ֣רֶץ הַזֹּ֔את מִנְּהַ֣ר מִצְרַ֔יִם עַד־הַנָּהָ֥ר הַגָּדֹ֖ל נְהַר־פְּרָֽת:
The firebrand was God. God also appeared to Moses as fire in the burning bush. Only God made the journey in the symbols of smoke and fire thus forming the lasting covenant between Himself and Abram (Abraham)
Therefore to free us from sin, God kept His covenant with us by sending His Son to be our sacrifice, knowing if He hadn't not one person would be saved as we have all sinned. God, being just and the only one who can just because He alone is perfect, He requires a sacrifice. (Moderator Note - This is based on Christian theology and is not consistent with what G-d teaches in the Hebrew bible) Please show me what the Hebrew Bible teaches.
The law convicts us all, but because of Jesus and the grace of God, we are not under the law but under grace. (Moderator Note - Again, this is Christian theology and has no basis in the Hebrew bible) Does the Hebrew Bible teach anything about grace or does it only speak of the law?
1- Save ourselves from what? We can most certainly change ourselves.
2 - Well that's strange, since when does a lamb sin? And to repeat, the Passover has nothing to do with sin.
3- Not sure of what your point is. There were several covenants made in the Hebrew bible.
4- If I'm not mistaken, this was already discussed. G-d does not require a sacrifice. There are many, many passages in the Hebrew bible where people are forgiven for sin without a sacrifice and we are specifically told how to do so!
I ask you, how were the Jews forgiven for their sins during the time between the 1st and 2nd Temple?
5- All you have to do is read Psalm 19 and 119, the longest Psalm by King David and you'll get a very good picture of how the law/instructions are held in very high regard, it doesn't convict us as Christianity teaches.
For example -
Psalm 19:8 The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of the Lord is faithful, making the simple one wise.
9- The orders of the Lord are upright, causing the heart to rejoice; the commandment of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eyes.
11- They are to be desired more than gold, yea more than much fine gold, and are sweeter than honey and drippings of honeycombs.
Of course there is grace as well, we see that in many places in the Hebrew bible where G-d forgives people for the only reason that He waned to.
Contrary to the teachings of Christianity that our works are useless, G-d tells us in the Hebrew bible that it is our actions and keeping His commandments that count. Deuteronomy 6:24,25 for example -
24 - And the Lord commanded us to perform all these statutes, to fear the Lord, our God, for our good all the days, to keep us alive, as of this day.
25 - And it will be for our merit that we keep to observe all these commandments before the Lord, our God, as He has commanded us.
Why did Christianity change what G-d taught us here and in many other places??