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| New convert |
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Posted by: Solomon Maurice - 03-05-2024, 07:53 PM - Forum: Judaism General
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Hi,
I'm a re convert from Nigeria in particular and I'm ready to learn about our teaching, doctoring and culture till the point I can formally call my self a Jew.
❤️
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| Tunisia |
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Posted by: Chavak - 03-03-2024, 03:03 AM - Forum: Judaism General
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I'm on a tour in Tunisia and Jews have been mentioned quite a bit in regards to the countries history. We visited an ancient synagogue still in use by the few remaining Jews. One of the tour guides who is Muslim asked me about the origin of my name. When I told him he was delighted and said Islam had taken a lot from Judaism and that we are related, same father different mother. That he had a nephew named Amir and how that is also a common Israeli name and that seemed to please him. It was an interesting conversation and gives me hope for peace in the future.
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| Who buried with whom? Isaiah 53:9 |
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Posted by: ThomasDGW - 02-29-2024, 09:35 PM - Forum: Counter-Missionary Forum
- Replies (36)
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"And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death." King James Version
"And they (literally 'he') made His grave with the wicked- But with the rich at His death." The New King James Version
"And He put with the wicked His grave and with a rich (man) in His death." The Interlinear Bible, translated by Jay P. Green, Sr
"His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet He was with a rich man in His death." New American Standard Version
"And they made his grave with the wicked and in his deaths among the rich," Unknown version quoted by Michoel Drazin
"And his grave was set among the wicked, And with the rich, in his death (with footnote I can't find)" translation from sefaria.org
"And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death," translation from chabad.org
The basic meaning is clear, his grave was made, put, set with, or given to the wicked, and in his death, he was with a rich man, or simply among the rich. There is a question about the word "deaths" in Hebrew. I don't know Hebrew and can't explain why the Christian, Jay Green, and other translators put it as singular, if it is supposed to be plural. I take that seriously and I am not amenable to say, "Oh, it doesn't have to be exactly right." I plan to deal with that later.
But first, who was buried with the wicked and also was with the rich in death? Three of the Christian translations capitalize the "He", indicating that this is a divine person, but I ignore that as the opinion of the translator. I already knew that the majority consensus of Jewish scholars seems to be that this is the nation Israel. I have already read a couple explanations of this, but I ask the Jews here to go ahead and explain how Israel fulfilled this passage.
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| Bearing sins |
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Posted by: ThomasDGW - 02-22-2024, 02:03 AM - Forum: Counter-Missionary Forum
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Isaiah 53 refers to the servant bearing the sins of others in 3 places: verse 6 (indirectly, through HaShem laying our iniquities on him), verse 11, and verse 12. Tovia Singer, holding to the claim that the servant of Isaiah 53 is the nation of Israel, explains that this means that the Jews have borne the brunt of the sins of the nations, suffering because of their sinful actions. I do not pretend to know Hebrew anywhere near as well as he does, and so it might be expected that I have to take his word that this is the correct meaning of the phrase "bearing sins".
However, I have a useful tool that can clarify meanings of Hebrew text, I think better than a dictionary: a Hebrew concordance, which lists every Hebrew word in the Bible and then lists every phrase in the Bible where that word is used, indicating the tense of the word. Mine is called The Englishman's Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament by George V. Wigram, which shows the King James translation of each phrase containing each Hebrew word
I looked up the word translated "bear/bore" in Isaiah 53:11, 12, "nawsaw" and scanned through the verses shown. It is used about 800 times in the Bible, but I focused on the times when it refers to bearing sins or guilt. I noted about 8 examples that I think shed light on this issue of bearing sins:
Exodus 28:38, 43 refer to the high priest, first bearing the iniquity of Israel in their holy offerings and then in the high priest bearing his own iniquity and dying if he is not dressed correctly when he enters the holy place. Both refer to the weight or punishment of the sin, not effects of sinful actions.
Leviticus 5:1, 17 use the phrase to refer to a person who becomes aware of his sin that was previously hidden from his knowledge. It seems to me to refer to being guilty of the sin.
Leviticus 16:22 tells how the scapegoat bears the sins of Israel into the wilderness, taking the guilt away from the congregation.
Numbers 14:33 uses the phrase to refer to the innocent children of the rebels at Kadesh Barnea who will have to bear the sins of the rebels by being in the wilderness with them. Again, it refers to suffering the consequences of another's sin as if they were guilty, not the evil actions themselves.
Numbers 30:15 says that a husband of a vowing wife will bear her guilt if he doesn't annul her vow. Again, he is not getting hurt by the vow, but is charged with the guilt for it not being fulfilled.
Psalm 32:5 and 85:4 used the term to refer to God's forgiving the sin or not having the sin duly recompensed. This seems close to the idea that Tovia expressed, but it involves the sinner being released from the guilt of the sin. That doesn't seem to me to fit with the NAZIs killing your family.
Ezekiel 4:5-6 refers to the prophet bearing the sins of Israel by lying on his side for about a year. Again, this doesn't fit with the idea of suffering their sinful actions, but rather taking on himself part of the punishment.
Ezekiel 18:19-20 is very emphatic that the son is not to bear the sin of the father. If bearing the sin of the father meant receiving his attacks in an abusive relationship, this verse would be nonsense, because this does happen, yet God says that the son shall not bear the sins of the father. It must mean being punished by God.
I scanned though the other verses, looking for those referring to bearing sins or guilt and found none that gave the meaning that Tovia Singer ascribes to the phrase. I conclude that for the servant to bear the sins of many, it must mean that he takes away their guilt for the sin that they committed. Thus, it cannot refer to Israel. All of those anti-Semites are going to answer for their sins.
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| Forum |
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Posted by: searchinmyroots - 02-18-2024, 05:05 PM - Forum: Judaism General
- Replies (21)
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Just to let everyone know, the forum may be having some hiccups and the software probably needs to be updated.
I've tried to send a couple of PM's but they come back as an internal error.
I've been in touch with our illustrious founder of the forum and he will probably try and update the software sometime in the near future.
I'll keep you posted.
Thank you for your patience and support and interactions!
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