(12-10-2021, 06:29 PM)Lorotzelotzarich Wrote: [ -> ]- FFP2 masks must be worn in all indoor spaces that are not private areas, i.e. for all stores and for services provided in close physical proximity.
https://www.wien.info/en/travel-info/cor...nna-388282
Why is that? I am not an expert on filtration and I doubt you or anyone sharing this forum is either. That does not mean we should not make our own personal decisions on protection either. If someone wants to wear a mask then do so, they should. I wore them frequently while working around heavy dust. I do know breathing in our own Carbon Dioxide can be very unhealthy.
I've also
learned from those that have worked with filters that say not even the N-95 is able to capture less than 40 microns while the virus is much smaller. By this comparison the chain link fence to keep out the mosquito would not be too much of an exaggeration.
(12-13-2021, 02:53 AM)Lorotzelotzarich Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't matter if the edit was done while I was typing as it wasn't there when I quoted it. The article Bluebird predated the vaccines by eight months and is a different topic than this thread was started with (comparing a bakery to a $230 Million company, really?)
Blubirds original post in the beginning of this thread started with misinformation as a anti-vax scare tactic right from the first line stating "No vaccine was ever developed in less than 5 years. The test phases are not one after an other as they used to be and they still go on. And there are serious side effects" as the vaccine was built up upon similar vaccines and data based on similar criteria that spanned nearly 20 years as stated in the following link from a medical journal dated when the vaccine began it's roll out. Thus is didn't need the 5 years as stated.
https://jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com/art...20-00695-2
Yes, it does matter because your accusation (
That line was edited into the post after I created my post) was not true
and you didn't admit so, you just kept on with your views.
We can have an honest open debate but if we cannot admit when we are wrong, then it goes nowhere fast.
There is a lot of "information" and a lot of "misinformation" out there, it will be hard to determine the real truths if we ever do.
We just have to understand there are different views and respect each other for them.
As I've mentioned previously, I'm not against anyone's choice as to whether to take or not take the shot. And I believe others here have the same view. We just don't want to be forced to do something when there are so many conflicting stories. You'll see many people who have taken the shot who believe the same.
(12-13-2021, 03:18 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, it does matter because your accusation (That line was edited into the post after I created my post) was not true
I did not read it as an accusation. And, in fact, I think it was a true statement. The quoted post was changed while the new post was already being created but not yet posted. Thus I don't think there was any dishonesty on anyone's part. Actually your statement might have been perceived as an implied accusation: "You must have missed the last line of Bluebirds post as you conveniently left it off -"
We all need to practice self-restraint and respect each other when discussing emotional issues.
(12-13-2021, 03:33 PM)robrecht Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:18 PM)searchinmyroots Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, it does matter because your accusation (That line was edited into the post after I created my post) was not true
I did not read it as an accusation. And, in fact, I think it was a true statement. The quoted post was changed while the new post was already being created but not yet posted. Thus I don't think there was any dishonesty on anyone's part. Actually your statement might have been perceived as an implied accusation: "You must have missed the last line of Bluebirds post as you conveniently left it off -"
We all need to practice self-restraint and respect each other when discussing emotional issues.
Rob,
Yes, you are correct, at the time it was not seen so it may have taken as true then, I take back my accusation claim, thank you for pointing that out.
My apologies to Lorotzelotzarich.
But after I explained the timeline, which is there for everyone to see, and that it was not true (it was not edited after), it would be respectful to note the truth, that it was not edited after.
Lorotzelotzarich's next post says "
It doesn't matter if the edit was done while I was typing as it wasn't there when I quoted it."
It clearly does matter.
So I redact my accusation claim, just waiting for admittance the post was not edited after as a response.
(12-13-2021, 01:27 PM)Blue Bird Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 12:05 PM)Dana Wrote: [ -> ]... Anyone is able to visit the VAERS website to view the numbers. The high count of deaths as a result from the vaccination.
ALL VACCINES 2021
2021
Death 9,261
Life Threatening 10,605
Permanent Disability 11,298
COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19)-ONLY 2021
Death 8,970
Life Threatening 10,258
Permanent Disability 10,398
COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19) 8,970
UNKNOWN VACCINES (UNK) 170
ZOSTER VACCINE (VARZOS) 47
Why don't people care?
Think of a terrorist attack that left 9,000 dead.
Of course people care. Still one must be careful not to misunderstand or misinterpret VAERS data. It is wrong to understand these data as deaths necessarily resulting from vaccination. And it is wrong to compare these numbers with unknown or zoster vaccines. The fact that a death occurs after a vaccination does not automatically mean that the vaccination caused the death. All reports require further investigation.
This website will give you some perspective on how to approach VAERS data.
(12-13-2021, 05:43 PM)robrecht Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 01:27 PM)Blue Bird Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 12:05 PM)Dana Wrote: [ -> ]... Anyone is able to visit the VAERS website to view the numbers. The high count of deaths as a result from the vaccination.
ALL VACCINES 2021
2021
Death 9,261
Life Threatening 10,605
Permanent Disability 11,298
COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19)-ONLY 2021
Death 8,970
Life Threatening 10,258
Permanent Disability 10,398
COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19) 8,970
UNKNOWN VACCINES (UNK) 170
ZOSTER VACCINE (VARZOS) 47
Why don't people care?
Think of a terrorist attack that left 9,000 dead.
Of course people care. Still one must be careful not to misunderstand or misinterpret VAERS data. It is wrong to understand these data as deaths necessarily resulting from vaccination. And it is wrong to compare these numbers with unknown or zoster vaccines. The fact that a death occurs after a vaccination does not automatically mean that the vaccination caused the death. All reports require further investigation. This website will give you some perspective on how to approach VAERS data.
Rob,
In my opinion, it's impossible to confirm either way. We don't know for sure but something smells fishy to me if people unexpectedly die after recently receiving the shot.
Even if the VAERS data is only 2o% accurate, that is still way too many deaths.
And there are many verified reports of doctors who were not able to upload info onto medical sights regarding adverse reactions.
It seems pretty obvious to me things are not being said, reported, acknowledged and talked about in the open.
That's what makes it very suspicious.
What would need to be shown is that a significantly larger number of people died after vaccination than would have otherwise died without COVID or COVID vaccination. I've seen claims on both sides of this question. The most serious claim I've seen on the anti--COVID vaccine side (not however peer-reviewed) is that vaccination is mildly predictive of death 0-5 weeks after vaccination (before the benefits outweigh the risks), but the same investigators also reported that vaccination was negatively associated with mortality 6-20 weeks after vaccination. On the other hand, another peer-reviewed report does not show any association of vaccination with a higher incidence of mortality, rather the opposite. I don't think the definitive analysis has been done yet, but there are many very serious scientists looking at this very closely. My point is that of course people care about this and are studying it very closely and that in the meantime one should not misinterpret raw data from VAERS.
Yes but it's really hard to get through with vaccination problems. These must be heard and discussed also. Even famous persons are not heard with their stories. Maybe I've posted it before... then I appologize. There is a talented opera singer in Berlin who could no longer sing after her jab and was seriously ill. Her doctor refused to report the suspected side effects, saying: 'If I were to report all of this, I could close the practice. I do not have time for that.' The hospital's discharge report also did not correspond to the facts of the admission.
If it's so difficult for a public figure to be heard, how much more difficult is it for the average person?
German:
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/nac...-li.183431
Her condition after the jab in English:
https://news.in-24.com/coronavirus/162691.html
My impression is the exact opposite. Very high numbers of expressions of concern, with little consideration given to well founded scientific analysis.
(12-13-2021, 07:17 PM)robrecht Wrote: [ -> ]My impression is the exact opposite. Very high numbers of expressions of concern, with little consideration given to well founded scientific analysis.
It would be helpful not to destroy these concerned voices. I find it arrogant to silence them by saying, you are not an expert. Wait until we finish our studies.
They have their studies around them: husbands, wifes, children.
What I mean by that it's hard to get through - I don't know if this phrase exists in English, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say - is:
People are silenced by rediculing them or saying that science is against them. What a strange strategy is that?
Let people talk and discuss. Listen to them and don't try to force "science" on them.